The Si's power figures are underrated

arpypat

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Going by the numbers I saw from Car and Driver, they had the Si sedan at 2,911 and a GTI SE at 3,128. That 217 lb. difference is more like 7% heavier. The Autobahn version weighs in at over 3200 lbs...
OP mentioned it being an older body style one. 2015 GTIs come in at 2972-3086 lbs depending on options.
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arpypat

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Car and Driver weighed their 2015 test GTI at 3,105. Still 200 lbs. heavier than an Si sedan.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15109184/2015-volkswagen-gti-test-review/
Damn, that is hefty. Must've been an automatic sedan that they had tested. The manual GTI coupes were under 3000lbs. Even if it was 7% heavier, the torque on paper is a 34% difference and should give the GTI more of an edge. I agree that the Si is underrated on paper and does a good job of making a relatively slow car feel fast!
 

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Dynos arent everything but I find it funny how people who want to down play the Si's power always quote TSP's 182hp but fail to understand that other dynos (Ktuner and Hondata) have seen 200-205 AT THE WHEELS. But this wasnt about dyno results, its about my real life experience and my real life experience tells me this car doesnt feel like a 205 hp crank engine.
Hondata uses a Dynapack, I believe Ktuner does as well, so its not actually 205 to the wheels, its 205 to the hubs as it removes the rotational mass of the wheel. Dynapacks can read 7-10% higher than a Dynojet, so there's not really wizardry going on here. If this is your first decently quick car, it may seem extra fast to your butt. A single 3rd gear pull from 60-85mph race isn't going to actually give you an idea as to how fast your car is.

Yea, "we weren't there" but we know what the GTI does in the 1/4 and its a good tick faster than a Si.
 
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xbbnx

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Hondata uses a Dynapack, I believe Ktuner does as well, so its not actually 205 to the wheels, its 205 to the hubs as it removes the rotational mass of the wheel. Dynapacks can read 7-10% higher than a Dynojet, so there's not really wizardry going on here.

That's MAPerformance on a Dyno Jet with 200hp AT THE WHEELS.



Here's JST Performance with 201hp AT THE WHEELS.



And here is this guy making 198hp AT THE WHEELS on a Mustang Dyno which are known to read low.

I didn't want to turn this into a dyno discussion because dynos have so many variables, but just wanted to prove that some numbers are showing that Honda did do some "wizardry".
 


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xbbnx

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. If this is your first decently quick car, it may seem extra fast to your butt. A single 3rd gear pull from 60-85mph race isn't going to actually give you an idea as to how fast your car is.
I've driven many fast cars from ZL1's, to Corvette Grand Sports, G70, GT350, Stinger, STI, and even a Lamborghini Gallardo on a track. I know fast, and I also know that the Si doesnt feel like 205 at the crank, at least mine doesn't.
 
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Just curious... What enticed you to revert to stock?
Many reasons but here are the main ones.

1. I was always nervous that my clutch was going to start slipping even though I knew in the back of my mind that it wouldn't if driven right.

2. I am cheap, and sometimes I like to alternate between 87 octane and 93 octane, with a tune you are forced to use 93 octane.

3. I had a 3 hour road trip once and during my drive something happened where the tach started to bounce all over the place, even bouncing over red line. It was a very strange situation because I was cruising at about 85 MPH when the tach went haywire. There was no change in speed or even a change in engine sound, just an electronic glitch. I pulled over, shut the engine off for half a minute and turned it back on and everything went back to normal and I continued my trip. Not saying this was the tune's fault, but I convinced myself that somehow they were related.

4. I have always been satisfied with the Si's stock power for what I use it for, a fun daily driver. The tune really was just an experiment, and while the power difference was noticeable, honestly I havent missed it since going back to stock.
 

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I've read several essay articles on the SI dyno.
I deduce that the power of the SI stock varies
between 180 and 187 whp, depending on the
dyno, the calibration, temperature, humidity, fuel...
AS for the torque, it varies between 198 and 205 wtq.
 


amirza786

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I know
But i believe in numbers, theres no magic
I have to agree. Numbers don't lie...that is if they haven't been made up or rigged. Here is a 2016 GTI MK7 as compared to a 2017 Civic Si. On the same course the Si was about 2 seconds slower, and roughly 1 second slower in 0-60. That's not a lot slower, but enough to lose a race

 
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So, not hot.

He whined three times about understeer. I wonder what he would say if he drove an Si with a Type-R rear sway bar installed.
 

amirza786

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So, not hot.

He whined three times about understeer. I wonder what he would say if he drove an Si with a Type-R rear sway bar installed.
He's probably used to RWD oversteer
 

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That's MAPerformance on a Dyno Jet with 200hp AT THE WHEELS.

Here's JST Performance with 201hp AT THE WHEELS.

And here is this guy making 198hp AT THE WHEELS on a Mustang Dyno which are known to read low.

I didn't want to turn this into a dyno discussion because dynos have so many variables, but just wanted to prove that some numbers are showing that Honda did do some "wizardry".
You're right, dynos can be made to read high or low, but shop/store dynos tend to be more rose colored than others. The owner in the last vid dynoed in the middle of winter in IL, I'd expect it to read high, cold ambient temps do that. Honda also likely used 91 octane for their advertised numbers, you're gonna see a bump with 93. That said, This:
Is not indicative of a 201whp Si, my stock FG2 ran a hair quicker at the same track stock (I'm fairly local to JST). Dyno can lie, but the track doesn't.

I've driven many fast cars from ZL1's, to Corvette Grand Sports, G70, GT350, Stinger, STI, and even a Lamborghini Gallardo on a track. I know fast, and I also know that the Si doesnt feel like 205 at the crank, at least mine doesn't.
You talk about your butt dyno and real life experiences and driving/racing much faster cars, yet thought a single gear pull from 60-85 was at all indicative of a car's true power/performance? :bs:
 
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That said, This:
Is not indicative of a 201whp Si, my stock FG2 ran a hair quicker at the same track stock (I'm fairly local to JST). Dyno can lie, but the track doesn't.

You can find any videos you want to prove your point, and I can find any video I want to prove mine. For example I can find a couple of videos on YouTube of a stock Si beating a stock WRX and EVO in a race, dont believe me? Just ask..but it doesnt prove anything but my point .
You talk about your butt dyno and real life experiences and driving/racing much faster cars, yet thought a single gear pull from 60-85 was at all indicative of a car's true power/performance? :bs:
A single gear pull? Did you miss the other example of taking on a GTI? Or how about the fact that I have owned my car for over 2 and a half years, I'm pretty sure that I've had more than a single gear pull in that amount of time ;)
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