I tried to test drive a CTR... no dice

JustAddBeer said:

I've been lurking on the forum for a while now plotting my acquisition of a CTR and today I had my first interaction.

I currently have a 2015 Focus ST. I've only got 35k on the odo but I've been itching for something different. The larger size of the CTR is a huge plus and I feel like i can use that as an excuse to swap from the FOST.

I've been keeping up with CTRs for sale in my area hoping for one that was near by that was used that I could test drive. A Honda dealership a couple miles from my house happened to get a '19 with about 1500 miles on it. I figured that that would be the perfect opportunity to get a test drive.

Unfortunately, I was denied! I came in, took a walk around the vehicle, sat in it, etc. and asked about the possibility of a test drive. The vehicle was on the show floor but I was still hopeful. The sales guy said he'd ask and he came back saying they couldn't because their "insurance wouldn't cover it" . Sound like horse shit to me..

Manager came over and we talked a bit about numbers and availability. While I wasn't there to buy that day I still walked away a bit shocked that they didn't try to hook me with a test drive. Hell, it might have worked.

I hope to pull the trigger some time in the next 6 to 12 months.

Side note: I'll say that my biggest barrier to purchasing a CTR is the prospect of having to fork out some serious cheddar to swap the stock 20's to something more practical. Other than that I'm excited to land one in the near future!

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I agree the insurance bit is probably bullshit. They don't insure the cars - the insurance is covered under the use of the dealer plate and it doesn't matter if you're there to drive a Type-R or an Odyssey. No one in their right mind will buy a car - especially last year's model that someone drove 1,500 miles - probably couldn't pay for it and was repossessed - without driving it first. I'm afraid you were too willy nilly and they knew you weren't there to buy it.

They don't care about people who want to compare it to their current car - they care about people buying a car right now that are comparing it to other manufactures and other dealers.

I went straight in with the print out of all the options, price, cheques, deposit and got less than zero resistance. They did everything but roll out a red carpet and offer a massage - with happy ending.

When you're ready to buy, go in with everything you need to buy a car.. I mean everything, including a void cheque and recent pay stubs. The worst thing that can happen is you walk away without buying it. If you come in heavy, they are going to make a copy of your license and go over everything with you first, then you get to drive a car.. If you decide you want that car, that's when they do the paperwork and take a deposit.

Never go into the show room and start looking at a car first. Walk in, go directly to customer service and ask for someone in sales. Go through what you want with the sales person. They will take you over to the car and offer the drive. Any other way looks like you're on your day off with nothing better to do.

ripcord291 said:

Every car is different and i wanna feel and drive the car im going to buy lol

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Definitely. That's why I bought a black Si instead of waiting for a blue one to come in. I was going to buy a blue one, but I test drove a black one because that's what they had. I mean, why not? I just drove the perfect car. The worst decision would be to wait for one to come in that might have something wrong with it or not give me the exact experience I just had.

I also decided not a buy a blue one because of the extra red in the seats in 2020 - I didn't want to be driving a clown car. Not impressed by a blue car, black and chrome trim, black interior with red accents. That's far too much going on and yes, I could have paid for blue or black accents and shit, but why bother - I got a nearly murdered out Si that looks mean as fuck. hehe.

Noize said:

I drove an $85,000 Giulia without issue

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Was the Giulia the wet dream it looks like? I'd get an Alfa Rosso, Giulia Quadrifoglio with dark 5-hole wheels. Buuut it's 100,000 CAD so I'm SOL for now. ;/

FC3L15B7 said:

Was the Giulia the wet dream it looks like? I'd get an Alfa Rosso, Giulia Quadrifoglio with dark 5-hole wheels. Buuut it's 100,000 CAD so I'm SOL for now. ;/

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The torque conv. auto kills it a lot here in the USA. Lots of other places in the world, you can get a manual.
These things depreciate like falling out of a tree, so that's good to get one used.

Reliability has apparently been awful, so I can't overlook that.

Noize said:

The torque conv. auto kills it a lot here in the USA. Lots of other places in the world, you can get a manual.
These things depreciate like falling out of a tree, so that's good to get one used.

Reliability has apparently been awful, so I can't overlook that.

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That's the only thing I don't like - the autotragic transmission. As far as reliability, well, it's an Alfa, so you just accept that it's not going to be reliable. haha.

FC3L15B7 said:

They don't care about people who want to compare it to their current car - they care about people buying a car right now that are comparing it to other manufactures and other dealers.

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That worked for me. I'm a GT Porsche and Renault Sport fan and have had a couple of M BMW's. When I wanted a 4 door with more space to replace my RS Clio I assumed I would get a new RS Megane. I've only ever owned Euro cars and couldn't stomach the look of the CTR but was curious about its consistently glowing reviews. So even though I didn't intend buying a CTR I thought as a genuine hot hatch buyer at that moment it was a good excuse to drive one.

I rang a dealer and asked for a test drive. The salesman asked what I was planning to spend. I said I was also looking at RS Meganes and gave him their new prices, which were similar to a new CTR. He said sure, we have one you can take for an hour. Turned out it was the MD's DD. I said I'd scoped a couple of good twisty roads I wanted to test the handling on that would just fit into the hour. No problem.

This was a refreshing contrast to the Renault dealership in the same area, which was disorganised and I had to have a salesman chaperone me. Anyway I got to drive Meganes with and without Cup chassis and the CTR on the same roads and at least the young Renault salesman enjoyed me driving hard. After driving the CTR one day and one of the Meganes the next I took the CTR out again straight after to make sure it didn't feel too locked down compared to the wild handling of the RWS Renault. Using later braking or bigger lifts into corners got the CTR's tail moving just a nice amount.

The second drive of the CTR also confirmed that it feels a class above the current RS Megane (and most other cars) in structural quality, interior design, driving position, seat comfort, control weights and precision, ride comfort (compared to the Cup chassis), handling and braking composure and precision, and lack of torque steer. Apart from the motor it felt remarkably similar to a Mk1 Cayman GT4 I had. The looks grew on me in stealth black and I placed an order.

The point of all this is that if if you're buying new and need four seats or if you only need two but don't want the outlay of a GT Porsche you don't need to test drive a CTR, just buy one, it's brilliant!

Nevertheless I think all manufacturers should have a pool of demo cars that dealers can rent for short periods for buyer experience and to avoid testing of cars that will be sold new.

Type aah said:

T... Apart from the motor it felt remarkably similar to a Mk1 Cayman GT4 I had. The looks grew on me in stealth black and I placed an order.

The point of all this is that if if you're buying new and need four seats or if you only need two but don't want the outlay of a GT Porsche you don't need to test drive a CTR, just buy one, it's brilliant!
...

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Wow that is high praise given that the GT4 is considered one of the greats, thanks for sharing your experience.

Does the CTR offer enough rear adjustability (in the form of lift-off oversteer) that you can make use of it on public roads to safely bring the rear out a bit? That would partially compensate for it not having the power oversteer ability of say a BRZ or Miata.

DevonK said:

Wow that is high praise given that the GT4 is considered one of the greats, thanks for sharing your experience.

Does the CTR offer enough rear adjustability (in the form of lift-off oversteer) that you can make use of it on public roads to safely bring the rear out a bit? That would partially compensate for it not having the power oversteer ability of say a BRZ or Miata.

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The CTR feels so stable, intuitive and linear in all its responses I think you can safely lift-off oversteer on public roads. Given the limited time I only tried it in tight corners so the speeds weren't high but one was on a steep downhill and there aren't many cars would give me the confidence to try that on my second drive.

DevonK said:

Wow that is high praise given that the GT4 is considered one of the greats, thanks for sharing your experience.

Does the CTR offer enough rear adjustability (in the form of lift-off oversteer) that you can make use of it on public roads to safely bring the rear out a bit? That would partially compensate for it not having the power oversteer ability of say a BRZ or Miata.

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Having had a GT4 for three years, not sure I could say the driving dynamics are similar. However, the fun factor for both cars is indeed similar,

FC3L15B7 said:

I also decided not a buy a blue one because of the extra red in the seats in 2020 - I didn't want to be driving a clown car. Not impressed by a blue car, black and chrome trim, black interior with red accents. That's far too much going on and yes, I could have paid for blue or black accents and shit, but why bother - I got a nearly murdered out Si that looks mean as fuck. hehe.

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Ridiculous reasoning but ok. I get so many compliments on my Si's blue paint. Guess you would have to tint the tail lights too for that "murdered" look, eh?

Siiick said:

Ridiculous reasoning but ok. I get so many compliments on my Si's blue paint. Guess you would have to tint the tail lights too for that "murdered" look, eh?

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I feel like the Aegean Blue that Honda offered the CTR in is still my favorite color for the CTR. The new blue is nice, but not quite the color I'd want mine in. For current generation colors I'd want would be in the following order: PM, CW, RR, SG, BB, CB*.

*Crystal Black would be slotted between Championship White and Rallye Red in terms of aesthetics, but I would hate to be the one detailing a black car

BryanCO said:

Having had a GT4 for three years, not sure I could say the driving dynamics are similar. However, the fun factor for both cars is indeed similar,

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If you had both cars at the same time you will be able to make a more accurate comparison than I can from my year with a GT4 in 2015-16 and 1½ hours in a CTR 3 months ago but these are the similarities I remember: low, long leg driving position; rifle bolt gearshift; firm brake pedal right from the top; steering ok but not the natural feel and clarity of pre-GT4 hydraulic; ride in CTR sport mode; and handling stability, precision, grip and agility.

Despite its less favourable weight distribution the CTR still felt well balanced and both cars have just a hint of understeer to signal the limit of grip. I stiffened the rear bar on the GT4 to reduce the understeer, which also improved the steering feel in the dry but there was no feedback in the wet. I had to push the GT4 very hard in the dry (on the road - didn't get it to the track) to get the tail into play under power. It felt great but was subtle. However in the wet the tail was very snappy. The 997 GT3 as you would know is far more progressive. So in my experience the CTR only misses out on a hint of power oversteer in the dry and you obviously don't need to worry about snap power oversteer with it in the wet.

Type aah said:

If you had both cars at the same time you will be able to make a more accurate comparison than I can from my year with a GT4 in 2015-16 and 1½ hours in a CTR 3 months ago but these are the similarities I remember: low, long leg driving position; rifle bolt gearshift; firm brake pedal right from the top; steering ok but not the natural feel and clarity of pre-GT4 hydraulic; ride in CTR sport mode; and handling stability, precision, grip and agility.

Despite its less favourable weight distribution the CTR still felt well balanced and both cars have just a hint of understeer to signal the limit of grip. I stiffened the rear bar on the GT4 to reduce the understeer, which also improved the steering feel in the dry but there was no feedback in the wet. I had to push the GT4 very hard in the dry (on the road - didn't get it to the track) to get the tail into play under power. It felt great but was subtle. However in the wet the tail was very snappy. The 997 GT3 as you would know is far more progressive. So in my experience the CTR only misses out on a hint of power oversteer in the dry and you obviously don't need to worry about snap power oversteer with it in the wet.

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I didn’t have both at the same time.

You are spot on. The biggest difference is the effortless turn in and rotation of the GT4. Just lovely. The GT4 did like to reach traction limit and let go, without much notice. Oh, and the exhaust sound was much better than the CTR. But the CTR really is fantastic considering the cost and utility.

BryanCO said:

I didn’t have both at the same time.

You are spot on. The biggest difference is the effortless turn in and rotation of the GT4. Just lovely. The GT4 did like to reach traction limit and let go, without much notice. Oh, and the exhaust sound was much better than the CTR. But the CTR really is fantastic considering the cost and utility.

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Interesting similarity in our recent car choices. How did you get from GT4 to 997.1 GT3 and CTR?

Type aah said:

Interesting similarity in our recent car choices. How did you get from GT4 to 997.1 GT3 and CTR?

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Lots of cars throughout the years and generally have a fun dd and a weekend car plus a road bike (Ducati Multistrada) and dirt bike (KTM 300 tpi). Bought the GT4 new in 2016 and kept it for three yrs. Great car with a few flaws. Wanted to move to a 991 GT3 but I’m not a PDK guy. 991.2’s are a bit much right now. Drove a 997 and loved it. So involving. Mezger is awesome. Was similar priced to the GT4 (which I had paid cash for) which made the swap easy. Looking at the 997 RS or 991.2 GT3 as my next car. Would love to keep the 997 if I go 991.2. The 997 RS may be the ultimate (excluding the 4.0 of course) car.

For a dd, bounced around, mostly BMW’s. Bought a new Focus RS in late 2017. Wrecked it in March 2019. Fortunately not my fault, Bought a used F80 M3. Had it for 6 months and untimely didn’t care for it. About the same time, I bought a used GTI for my 15 yr old son which really highlighted where the M3 was lacking. Sold the M3 and bought the CTR.

You?