LogR Performance Data Recorder App launched for 2020 Civic Type R

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Once someone with a 2020 Type R and Honda hack "Exports" the APK, and "Shares it", anyone else with Honda Hack should be able to install that APK, and with the downloaded Phone app, have LogR running.

Anyone Else being anyone with an earlier Model GenX Type R, or possibly even a GenX Si
This is factually inaccurate...

The likely reason for the compatibility issue is the version of Android the 2020 CTR is running on its tablet. APKs are built for Android versions, and it's up to the developer of an app as to what Android versions they compile for. Should the headunit's tablet use a version of Android higher than KitKat, in order for the APK to be installed on KitKat, it would have to be compiled for KitKat. Unless the Developer is using opensource code only for the app's code, only the Developer can compile it.
  • For example, this is why Escort's Escort Live app cannot be installed on the CTR's tablet headunit.
 

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This is factually inaccurate...

The likely reason for the compatibility issue is the version of Android the 2020 CTR is running on its tablet. APKs are built for Android versions, and it's up to the developer of an app as to what Android versions they compile for. Should the headunit's tablet use a version of Android higher than KitKat, in order for the APK to be installed on KitKat, it would have to be compiled for KitKat. Unless the Developer is using opensource code only for the app's code, only the Developer can compile it.
  • For example, this is why Escort's Escort Live app cannot be installed on the CTR's tablet headunit.
Does anyone on this forum know any specific details of the 2020 Type-R's Head Unit, and that it is not the same as the 2018, or 2019 units ( +/- a Volume Knob)

It would seem that Honda had Mitsubishi develop a custom head unit for the GenX cars, with very unique and custom hardware features.
Is there any news from Honda that they have a New Unit, with updated hardware or software.
If they do, it would be a massive Selling point, as the old unit was severely "out-of-date" as far as speed and application software and OS, (Kitkat) were concerned, even on the 1st year GenX cars.
 
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Does anyone on this forum know any specific details of the 2020 Type-R's Head Unit, and that it is not the same as the 2018, or 2019 units ( +/- a Volume Knob)
Buttons on the left are different, but aesthetics/functionality has zero to do with what Android version it's running. The 2017 - 2019 FK8's have all the temperature sensors relevant to LogR, so the simplest answer [Occam's Razor] as to why LogR is not compatible with the 2017 - 2019 FK8's is that Honda upgraded Android to >=5.0.
  • This being said, it could be for a very different reason, and Honda could have stuck with a bottom-of-the-barrel budget tablet running an outdated, insecure OS that doesn't use SELinux... but the simplest answer is they upgraded the OS.
 

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Buttons on the left are different, but aesthetics/functionality has zero to do with what Android version it's running. The 2017 - 2019 FK8's have all the temperature sensors relevant to LogR, so the simplest answer [Occam's Razor] as to why LogR is not compatible with the 2017 - 2019 FK8's is that Honda upgraded Android to >=5.0.
  • This being said, it could be for a very different reason, and Honda could have stuck with a bottom-of-the-barrel budget tablet running an outdated, insecure OS that doesn't use SELinux... but the simplest answer is they upgraded the OS.
I think we are both talking about something that we have no sure information about ( at least I am )

When Honda updated the GenX had Unit to have a Volume Knob, that was just a simple change to the Display Module part, (made by LG) and very little to the software on the unit.

It could be the same for the different looking display shown on the 2020 Type R.

Developing new faster hardware, and updating all the OLD Honda Software to Android 8, 9 or 10, with the same Honda Unique hardware features of the earlier GenX head unit would be a massive development, and I would have though it was highly unlikely that they would do this at the tail end of GenX.

But who now .. Hopefully Honda does .. and we will see soon enough when the 2020 Type R's hit the market :)
 


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Ugh if there really is no 2017-2019 support, this makes me hella bitter. I was more intrigued by this than the phoenix yellow type r.
I am sure they will release some sort of hack for this eventually.
 

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I think we are both talking about something that we have no sure information about ( at least I am )

When Honda updated the GenX had Unit to have a Volume Knob, that was just a simple change to the Display Module part, (made by LG) and very little to the software on the unit.

It could be the same for the different looking display shown on the 2020 Type R.

Developing new faster hardware, and updating all the OLD Honda Software to Android 8, 9 or 10, with the same Honda Unique hardware features of the earlier GenX head unit would be a massive development, and I would have thought it was highly unlikely that they would do this at the tail end of GenX.
The initial question was regarding whether or not someone could install the LogR APK on the '17 - '19 FK8s since Honda says it's not compatible with them and therefore will not be offered to the '17 - '19 FK8s.
  • One can make an educated inferrence due to Occam's Razor (the simplest answer is almost always the correct one):
    • Since the '17 - '19 FK8s have sensors that output the same sensor readings within the LogR app, the only logical reasoning left why the LogR app would not be compatible is because the LogR app is compiled for a newer version of Android and will not be compiled for KitKat.
      • Due to this logical course of events, this would also infer the tablet on the >=2020 FK8 is using Android >=5.0.

Do I know any of this for certain, no... it's simply the most logical explanation for what Honda has stated, of which also happens to be the simplest explanation [Occam's Razor].
  • In order for any APK to run on a version of Android, it must be compiled for that specific version of Android, which, again, is why an app like Escort's Escort Live is not possible to install on the FK8

This would ultimately be a good question for HondaProJason, since he'll likely offer an answer prior to anything official from Honda directly.

I am sure they will release some sort of hack for this eventually.
If the logical conclusion above is born out, you generally can't hack something like that; if one by chance did, there's an issue of trust, as the apk must be signed, and it will no longer be signed by the developer, so it would be ill-advised to install.​
 
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The 2017-2019 US CTR does not have an oil temperature sensor. Europe does.

I strongly doubt this has something to do with the Android version and more to do with the fact that nothing is transmitting that data in the first place on older models. An APK can't just magically access all those sensors because you install it on the headunit. The headunit does have access to some sensors (speed, steering angle, mileage) and can write to certain systems (TPMS, rev match), but it's limited.
 

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The audio-navigation unit is connected to both the B-CAN and F-CAN buses in all 10G Civics, so it is capable of accessing all sensor data in all models.

One of the fundamental capabilities of Apple CarPlay is communication between CarPlay and other systems that communicate with the audio-navigation unit.

CarPlay is capable of controlling the radio, GPS, power seats, climate control, and more through the visual interface or Siri, although I've never an automaker actually do this. They probably want you to use their native interface instead of CarPlay and don't see the need to spend time developing a nicer CarPlay app for controlling the vehicle.

As someone who is in and out of a lot of different vehicles, I would love the ability to use a standardized CarPlay interface to view information and control the vehicle without having to constantly learn new systems.
 

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The 2017-2019 US CTR does not have an oil temperature sensor. Europe does.

I strongly doubt this has something to do with the Android version and more to do with the fact that nothing is transmitting that data in the first place on older models. An APK can't just magically access all those sensors because you install it on the headunit. The headunit does have access to some sensors (speed, steering angle, mileage) and can write to certain systems (TPMS, rev match), but it's limited.
So the USA 2020 Type R most likely has the Oil Temperature sensor :) At least that is a welcome step forward !
 


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The display assembly part number is the same on 2020 Type R/Si/Sport Touring as 2019 so at least the hardware is the same for the display. I guess it could still use a different Android version though.
 

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I think that’s the whole point. To make significant changes to appeal to new buyers and owners of previous year models. Makes current owners think to themselves.... “ Should I trade it in?” :dunno:

Tesla would have just give you an update for the new features.
 

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Buttons on the left are different, but aesthetics/functionality has zero to do with what Android version it's running. The 2017 - 2019 FK8's have all the temperature sensors relevant to LogR, so the simplest answer [Occam's Razor] as to why LogR is not compatible with the 2017 - 2019 FK8's is that Honda upgraded Android to >=5.0.
  • This being said, it could be for a very different reason, and Honda could have stuck with a bottom-of-the-barrel budget tablet running an outdated, insecure OS that doesn't use SELinux... but the simplest answer is they upgraded the OS.
"so the simplest answer [Occam's Razor] as to why LogR is not compatible with the 2017 - 2019 FK8's is that Honda upgraded Android to >=5.0." is NOT a valid technical conclusion and your statements about Android Operating Systems compatibility is highly flawed. ( FYI: I am an Android software developer)

Wonder who just watched the Movie "CONTACT" :rolleyes:

If Honda has upgraded the head Unit or it's Operating system for the 2020 Type R, they would be most defiantly be announcing and promoting it.

There has been no release from Honda about any Head unit or OS update, so we can be highly confident that it has not been updated --( for so many technical and cost reasons)

BTW: Look at some of the Honda "Concept cars" -- they give a glimpse as to what Honda Envisage their future Entertainment (and Information) Display system will be like in future cars.
A quantum leap from that in the genX, and probably needed for future Electric Drive Honda vehicles -- but not for genX
 

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This is pretty relevant as this will not limit 2017-2019 FK8 owners from downloading the App to their systems. I would be inclined to think that the only "exclusivity" of this software for 2020 models will be then only limited to the app (and associated sensor inputs). We just need to try and have it installed in our units and see what happens. I feel the major constraint for non-Honda hacked users is if the permissions "hand-shake" between our unit and the app can be made or not. We would potentially be loosing the oil temp sensor input(since we do not have the sensor), but everything else should work. (needless to say, this is all hypothetical thinking).

On a side note but related, I cannot stress how frustrated I am with the fact that our units have so much space available for new Apps and you pretty much can't download anything into it. Meaning...I would think by now Honda would have several apps created that could have been downloaded into the system without any issues. Obviously this is not the case. Then this App, that I believe meets this criteria is deemed "exclusive" to newer models.

Very frustrating.

The display assembly part number is the same on 2020 Type R/Si/Sport Touring as 2019 so at least the hardware is the same for the display. I guess it could still use a different Android version though.[/QUO
"so the simplest answer [Occam's Razor] as to why LogR is not compatible with the 2017 - 2019 FK8's is that Honda upgraded Android to >=5.0." is NOT a valid technical conclusion and your statements about Android Operating Systems compatibility is highly flawed. ( FYI: I am an Android software developer)

Wonder who just watched the Movie "CONTACT" :rolleyes:

If Honda has upgraded the head Unit or it's Operating system for the 2020 Type R, they would be most defiantly be announcing and promoting it.

There has been no release from Honda about any Head unit or OS update, so we can be highly confident that it has not been updated --( for so many technical and cost reasons)

BTW: Look at some of the Honda "Concept cars" -- they give a glimpse as to what Honda Envisage their future Entertainment (and Information) Display system will be like in future cars.
A quantum leap from that in the genX, and probably needed for future Electric Drive Honda vehicles -- but not for genX
 

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This is pretty relevant as this will not limit 2017-2019 FK8 owners from downloading the App to their systems. I would be inclined to think that the only "exclusivity" of this software for 2020 models will be then only limited to the app (and associated sensor inputs). We just need to try and have it installed in our units and see what happens. I feel the major constraint for non-Honda hacked users is if the permissions "hand-shake" between our unit and the app can be made or not. We would potentially be loosing the oil temp sensor input(since we do not have the sensor), but everything else should work. (needless to say, this is all hypothetical thinking).

On a side note but related, I cannot stress how frustrated I am with the fact that our units have so much space available for new Apps and you pretty much can't download anything into it. Meaning...I would think by now Honda would have several apps created that could have been downloaded into the system without any issues. Obviously this is not the case. Then this App, that I believe meets this criteria is deemed "exclusive" to newer models.

Very frustrating.
In all fairness, I think you also have to also look at it from the point of the car manufacturer, Honda in our case.

To provide an Entertainment system, and for other display and diagnostic purposes, they fitted a "Android Computer" and "Display", with the necessary software on it to do what they needed, and probably spent some considerable time & money, with QC, making sure all ran as expected.
They also "LOCKED DOWN" that system, so at least the average car owner could not mess with it a screw it up. They have a degree of Liability if anything goes wrong with this system, and there are possibilities of something going wrong and the head unit, that can talk to most of the other computer & control systems in the car, if corrupted, causing potentially fatal consequences.

So they LOCKED IT DOWN.

If it were left open, for car owners to install anything they wanted, it would potentially lead to a lot of issues, including both Service issues as well as normal car operation issues.

Imagine the problem caused if the system was heavily modified, with additional, poorly written Apps installed, and then the car has to be serviced, and the Service Tech has to sort through all this extra stuff, some of which could be causing operational issues. It would be a servicing nightmare !! :doh:

I think the current solution is a good technical compromise.

Keep the head Unit standard, locked down, but allow the car user to install APPS on the phone, and have the head unit using "Android Auto" or "Carplay", both display and control those Apps on the Phone, by displaying then and controlling them on the head unit display. The cars become "Standard" and far more easily diagnosed & serviced, but the Car owner can customize their Head unit experience through their phone, which is 100% their responsibility, and has nothing to do with normal Serving of the car.

You have to imagine that Honda is closely looking at and monitoring such non-Honda development, like Honda Hack, and evaluating how that could impacts on their car's reliability, and their car's legal liabilities.
It would be naive to also imagine that with each new model year, they might not try to introduce new LOCK DOWN measures to try to cut down on such modifications. :bat:
In fact, they have !!!

What actually surprise me, is that have not been a lot more successful in doing this ...:dunno:
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