The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

alejandroads123 said:

I do that mod also (Clutch master cylinder) but if you don't do both ( slave clutch cylinder) won't improve as expected , the bleeding and properly adjust is crucial . If you have the second gear already worn this mod or any mod won't help at all.. At least you should have smooth shifting in other gears, but again you need to do both master and slave.

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alejandroads123 said:

I do that mod also (Clutch master cylinder) but if you don't do both ( slave clutch cylinder) won't improve as expected , the bleeding and properly adjust is crucial . If you have the second gear already worn this mod or any mod won't help at all.. At least you should have smooth shifting in other gears, but again you need to do both master and slave.

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thanks, did not know that

My second gear issues are getting worse as of the last couple of days. Instead of crunching, I’m full on getting locked out of the gear entirely when upshifting from 1 to 2. Happened twice yesterday and once this morning. Both of the times yesterday had me wondering if the gear engaged or not; this morning, I physically couldn’t move the shifter into 2nd. I had to wiggle the stick until it finally went in after wasting 3 seconds looking like a moron to the people behind me.

24,885 miles

The dealer should have my 2020 Si ready for pickup sometime next week. So I’ve been reading this forum in the meantime and I was surprised to find this thread.

Coming from a 2008 Civic Si that I just sold :-(, this sounds exactly like a lot of the issues the 8thgen experienced. It was exacerbated in the winter. It took a Omni CMC, the rod adjusted with minimal free play, and motor mounts to resolve most of it. Every now and then in freezing temps, it would lock me out going from 3 to 2. But a quick double clutch would resolve it.

Does anyone know if this 2nd gear crunch was resolved for the 2020 Si’s or have they not been out long enough for ppl to complain?

One of the first things I’m going to do is adjust the rod to engage further off the ground. It def doesn’t hurt to do even without these issues.

Jaxson said:

The dealer should have my 2020 Si ready for pickup sometime next week. So I’ve been reading this forum in the meantime and I was surprised to find this thread.

Coming from a 2008 Civic Si that I just sold :-(, this sounds exactly like a lot of the issues the 8thgen experienced. It was exacerbated in the winter. It took a Omni CMC, the rod adjusted with minimal free play, and motor mounts to resolve most of it. Every now and then in freezing temps, it would lock me out going from 3 to 2. But a quick double clutch would resolve it.

Does anyone know if this 2nd gear crunch was resolved for the 2020 Si’s or have they not been out long enough for ppl to complain?

One of the first things I’m going to do is adjust the rod to engage further off the ground. It def doesn’t hurt to do even without these issues.

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It will probably be difficult for you to find a lot of SI owners with this issue because of the rev hang preventing fast shifts in the SI.

Severedninja said:

It will probably be difficult for you to find a lot of SI owners with this issue because of the rev hang preventing fast shifts in the SI.

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Interesting. I would hope Honda would have gotten it together 12 years later haha.

The 8thgen also suffered from a 3rd gear issue that got some traction online and thru some local news. There was a tsb put out for 3rd synchros.

Hey guys I have a 2018 Type R with about 19k on it badge # in the 14k’s. Took the car in because I was getting the infamous second gear grind every 5-8 1-2’s. It was getting louder and louder. Took the car to the dealer they were able to replicate the crunch/grind. They currently have the car and are awaiting Honda USA. Honda told them to check my transmission fluid and this is what it looked like 19k miles and I never track car and rarely push the car hard. I’m known from my friends to baby my cars way too much lol but yea I’ll keep you guys updated after the flush from the dealer the crunch/grind happened again when they took it for a test drive so it wasn’t the transmission fluid. Dealer also said it was very off for a car with 19k miles to have that dirty of transmission fluid

Wow. I don’t think my mtf ever looked that way even with 50k miles on it. Hope it gets resolved in your favor. Keep us updated.

Jaxson said:

Wow. I don’t think my mtf ever looked that way even with 50k miles on it. Hope it gets resolved in your favor. Keep us updated.

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Definitely man yea no matter what it shouldn’t look that bad after 19k miles. I wonder what’s going on in there

Yenkoray said:

I brought a modified clutch master cylinder from K20z3allmotorftw also known as naperformanceftw.com. Had it installed and did not make shifting any better, smoother or stop second gear grind. It actually made matters worst. So I ask for any kind of refund and the answer was no. So be aware if you do purchase one there isn’t a refund policy.

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They probably did not install it correctly.

Lust said:

They probably did not install it correctly.

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LMAO. You have to be real stupid not to install it correctly. I removed it myself and installed the OEM one back in and bled it. It’s real simple. The OEM feels so much better.

Yenkoray said:

LMAO. You have to be real stupid not to install it correctly. I removed it myself and installed the OEM one back in and bled it. It’s real simple. The OEM feels so much better.

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No they just don’t adjust it correctly after or don’t adjust it at all. You wouldn’t believe how many people do that even as professionals. It’s probably installed correctly. Plus if anyone read my lposts on fluid and bushings you’d have their cars fixed already!

Jpierro79 said:

No they just don’t adjust it correctly after or don’t adjust it at all. You wouldn’t believe how many people do that even as professionals. It’s probably installed correctly. Plus if anyone read my lposts on fluid and bushings you’d have their cars fixed already!

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I have replaced and installed the following myself : Acuity cable bushings and shifter base bushings. Acuity shifter rocker. Acuity centering spring. Perrin weighted shifter knob. Changed transmission fluid to Gm Sycromesh FM. All of that made a noticeable difference in shifting and feel. However the grind is still present not as much but still there.

My personal experience with occasional grinds and overall stickiness and lock outs are my gear box was under filled from the factory. Factory manual recommend 2 qts but to fill to the inspection hole takes 2.4+ qts.

IMO the under filled MTF is fine when new but over time the oil pressures drop and has a direct effect on lubrications and and overall smooth synchronized shifts.

How did I come to this conclusion? Once I drained and measured it was barely 2gts oil was not excessively used or appeared dark at 14k miles.

Switched to the GM Friction modified MTF and filled to 2.4 qts. There was an immediate difference in shifting smoothly. It has progressively gotten smoother and it’s like butter again. Just thought I would share my experience.

With that said I am certainly positive the longer you wait the problems will be permanent and switching oils won’t matter as the wear on the synchros will permanent.

I suggest anyone experiencing any of these issues to switch oils and measure the drain amount and fill to the 2.4+ qts.

A long time Honda tech clued me in, once I read all the Amazon positive posts from mostly Honda/ Acura owners I figured I’d give it a try. Very satisfied with the results. Gear box feels buttery smooth like day one.

https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10-4014-Friction-Synchromesh-Transmission/dp/B0026JK8FK

oak said:

My personal experience with occasional grinds and overall stickiness and lock outs are my gear box was under filled from the factory. Factory manual recommend 2 qts but to fill to the inspection hole takes 2.4+ qts.

IMO the under filled MTF is fine when new but over time the oil pressures drop and has a direct effect on lubrications and and overall smooth synchronized shifts.

How did I come to this conclusion? Once I drained and measured it was barely 2gts oil was not excessively used or appeared dark at 14k miles.

Switched to the GM Friction modified MTF and filled to 2.4 qts. There was an immediate difference in shifting smoothly. It has progressively gotten smoother and it’s like butter again. Just thought I would share my experience.

With that said I am certainly positive the longer you wait the problems will be permanent and switching oils won’t matter as the wear on the synchros will permanent.

I suggest anyone experiencing any of these issues to switch oils and measure the drain amount and fill to the 2.4+ qts.

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thank you very much. I appreciate the advice. My started to leak out from the inspection hole around 2.2 - 2.3. I torque the inspection hole and filled it a little more to about 2.4. I felt that I may have gone over but since you did the same I guess I’m not the only one. It’s a splash fluid so I thought I wouldn’t do damage.

Yenkoray said:

LMAO. You have to be real stupid not to install it correctly. I removed it myself and installed the OEM one back in and bled it. It’s real simple. The OEM feels so much better.

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guess whoever installed it is “real stupid” then.