What causes 1st gear lockout?

SDAlexander8

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Has anyone figured out what actually causes the first gear lockout? What is happening mechanically to cause this to occur on occasion when putting it in first at a stop light?

I can feel the shift sleeve slide over the synchro, but then get stopped dead by the gear ring. Are the teeth on the gear ring able to line up in a way where the teeth on the sleeve cannot slip past? Or is it some plastic component in the stock shift assembly that is getting held up somewhere?

Has anyone eliminated this completely?

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REBELXSi

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You're having trouble putting into first at a dead stop?
 
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SDAlexander8

SDAlexander8

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You're having trouble putting into first at a dead stop?
On occasion, yes. It is a known issue with this car. I don’t know if it has been fixed in the last two years.

It’s less than 5% of the time. You're at a stop light or stop sign and you go to put it in first and it will not go in all the way. It stops halfway, shifter sleeve will not slide over the gear, but feels like it does slide over the syncho teeth.

Generally throwing it back into 2nd or 3rd, then bringing it back to first will realign everything and it is fine. But lately even doing that doesn't make it as smooth as it should be.

My Si has 34500 miles on it. Trans fluid was changed with Honda OEM at 30k
 

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On occasion, yes. It is a known issue with this car. I don’t know if it has been fixed in the last two years.

It’s less than 5% of the time. You're at a stop light or stop sign and you go to put it in first and it will not go in all the way. It stops halfway, shifter sleeve will not slide over the gear, but feels like it does slide over the syncho teeth.

Generally throwing it back into 2nd or 3rd, then bringing it back to first will realign everything and it is fine. But lately even doing that doesn't make it as smooth as it should be.

My Si has 34500 miles on it. Trans fluid was changed with Honda OEM at 30k
I have this issue too when my car is cold. But I have an fx400. Maybe just need to adjust my clutch pedal.
 
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SDAlexander8

SDAlexander8

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I have this issue too when my car is cold. But I have an fx400. Maybe just need to adjust my clutch pedal.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the clutch pedal. But double clutching does sometimes helps the gear align properly if putting it into 2nd and back doesn't work.

This happens whether the car is at operating temperature or not.
 
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I might be the wrong person to be asking this- or discussing this - because my understanding is still in the learning phase. When you are coming to your stop - are you in a higher gear like 4-6, pressing the clutch as you come to your stop and then putting it in neutral while you sit waiting for your light to turn green? Then you go to put it in 1st and get the lock out? If this is the case, my understanding is that the gears are not lined up for a 4-6 to 1st gear change. but like you said, sticking it 3rd and then 1st fixes the issue. Which would again line up with the idea that going from 6th to 1st (at a stop) is causing the gearbox to not be lined up and ready for that shift. I could be explaining or understanding this incorrectly so forgive me.

I am still in my learning phase (and have posted about it before - my fear over learning manual) so i was sitting in my BFs Fiesta practicing changing gears with the car turned off. Just trying to form a memory of where the gears are etc. Anyway, i could go up and down the gears, but trying to go from say 5th to 1st was very difficult. But going from 5th to 3rd to 1st was ok.
 

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Last year a Type R owner was describing his 1st and 5th gear lockouts on his YouTube channel. He mentioned that he was told that someone told him that the fluid would get too hot at the clutch master cylinder and to change to DOT 4 fluid. He said he was going to try that, but I never followed up to see if that worked for him. The video was about him going to Amsoil Synchromesh to see if it improves shifting
 

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Last year a Type R owner was describing his 1st and 5th gear lockouts on his YouTube channel. He mentioned that he was told that someone told him that the fluid would get too hot at the clutch master cylinder and to change to DOT 4 fluid. He said he was going to try that, but I never followed up to see if that worked for him. The video was about him going to Amsoil Synchromesh to see if it improves shifting
Hmm, seems to be the exact opposite of my issue. Mine goes in fine once it's warmed up. Maybe there are separate issues at hand here. I do want to change over to Amsoil Synchromesh for my next fluid change though.
 
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SDAlexander8

SDAlexander8

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I might be the wrong person to be asking this- or discussing this - because my understanding is still in the learning phase. When you are coming to your stop - are you in a higher gear like 4-6, pressing the clutch as you come to your stop and then putting it in neutral while you sit waiting for your light to turn green? Then you go to put it in 1st and get the lock out? If this is the case, my understanding is that the gears are not lined up for a 4-6 to 1st gear change. but like you said, sticking it 3rd and then 1st fixes the issue. Which would again line up with the idea that going from 6th to 1st (at a stop) is causing the gearbox to not be lined up and ready for that shift. I could be explaining or understanding this incorrectly so forgive me.

I am still in my learning phase (and have posted about it before - my fear over learning manual) so i was sitting in my BFs Fiesta practicing changing gears with the car turned off. Just trying to form a memory of where the gears are etc. Anyway, i could go up and down the gears, but trying to go from say 5th to 1st was very difficult. But going from 5th to 3rd to 1st was ok.
So there are 3 separate hubs with 2 gears on each side of it. 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th, 5th and 6th. These are separated from each other and dropping it to neutral from like 5th or 4th gear should not affect the way 1st or 2nd gear engages.

maybe there is a safety mechanism to lock you out of first gear to prevent A mis-shift and over rev that just doesn't function properly and stays engaged sometimes when you come to a stop, Idk.

most of the time I downshift to 3rd before coming to a stop at a light or stop sign. Then i put it in neutral when i get to around 1500 RPM.

Hoping maybe there’s someone here who has some experience rebuilding transmissions that may know what is going on.
 
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SDAlexander8

SDAlexander8

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I’ve also heard that installing the Acuity shifter cable bushings can help with this lockout issue, which leads me to believe that something gets hung up in the stock shifter assembly due to all of the slop and play in the stock bushings and plastic components.
 


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I’ve also heard that installing the Acuity shifter cable bushings can help with this lockout issue, which leads me to believe that something gets hung up in the stock shifter assembly due to all of the slop and play in the stock bushings and plastic components.
Those cable bushings have been attributed to all kinds of magical things. That's what happens when people pay so much money for something so small.
 

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On occasion, yes. It is a known issue with this car. I don’t know if it has been fixed in the last two years.

It’s less than 5% of the time. You're at a stop light or stop sign and you go to put it in first and it will not go in all the way. It stops halfway, shifter sleeve will not slide over the gear, but feels like it does slide over the syncho teeth.

Generally throwing it back into 2nd or 3rd, then bringing it back to first will realign everything and it is fine. But lately even doing that doesn't make it as smooth as it should be.

My Si has 34500 miles on it. Trans fluid was changed with Honda OEM at 30k
Odd. I have 40k on mine, still on the factory fluid and never had this problem. Guess I got lucky.
 

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Odd. I have 40k on mine, still on the factory fluid and never had this problem. Guess I got lucky.
Only at 10k, but mine shifts great. Never had a lockout that I recall.
 

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I’ve had it happen on some of my Zs. Haven’t really had it happen on the Civic... though sometimes there’s a bit more resistance going into 1st when stationary. Not a lock out though. I’d agree that it’s probably an alignment issue and not fluid related. Whether it’s in the shifting external to the transmission or internal, I can’t say.

I did replace bushings in a 14 year old Z nearly 20 years ago that did improve it a lot. There was so much slop in the shifter, the shifts weren’t precise. When the car was in gear with the clutch up, you could grab the shifter and move it all over the place so you kind of had to hunt for a gear at times when shifting. This Civic shifting seems pretty precise.
 


 


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