New Race-Ready Civic Type R TC

There's a massive difference between wishing the CTR didn't have issues tracking all day right off the showroom floor and thinking that you were somehow buying a fully prepped race car.

I haven't tracked my CTR so I won't really chime in on it's short comings on the track, but there's a huge difference between some minimal mods that make tracking the car a lot easier and $55k more for a fully track prepped version.

Ouhei said:

There's a massive difference between wishing the CTR didn't have issues tracking all day right off the showroom floor and thinking that you were somehow buying a fully prepped race car.

I haven't tracked my CTR so I won't really chime in on it's short comings on the track, but there's a huge difference between some minimal mods that make tracking the car a lot easier and $55k more for a fully track prepped version.

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BuT iT's A tRaCkCaR.

kilo959 said:

New class of race oriented type R released today by Honda

Just an FYI

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According to a friend of mine who I believe is "in the know" these cars are strictly spec-racers and cannot be registered for the road (apparently the VIN cannot be registered) although I'm not sure if this is universally true. There should be lots of cool parts available for our street-legal play toys, though! BTW, he mentioned that the Ariel Atom 4 is out with a clean sheet design, and the latest Type R engine! To be street legal in the USA, they ship you boxes of parts that you have to assemble! The only problem with the video I watched is that it seems to only drive on the right hand side of the road! LOL

Here's a link: https://www.motor1.com/news/251941/ariel-atom-4-revealed/

Video:

kilo959 said:

Same, i’m wondering if that front grill is different to offer more airflow.

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I suspect that's true. My friend has actually cut out all the little triangles in the fake front grills for better airflow into the turbo bits and brakes.

TypeSiR said:

Buy a used ND Miata for $18k and throw in $5k for track mods. Done.

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Your suggestion is certainly a very popular weekend racer choice. We have a group of spec-Miata weekend racers here at the Sandia Raceway in Albuquerque, NM. Nice folks....

I mean this is cool and all but really read the specs. There are a few things oil cooler gears and some do dads. Lots of plastic bits and a wing. But most of the car and especially the engine is still the same as retail type Rs. So at 90K what are you really buying? 50k more for some gears and a cooler and some plastic bits? Heck you can buy three used Type Rs for that. I could se 60k for the car but not 90k.

Harlaquin said:

I mean this is cool and all but really read the specs. There are a few things oil cooler gears and some do dads. Lots of plastic bits and a wing. But most of the car and especially the engine is still the same as retail type Rs. So at 90K what are you really buying? 50k more for some gears and a cooler and some plastic bits? Heck you can buy three used Type Rs for that. I could se 60k for the car but not 90k.

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You're ignoring that it's a turnkey certified race car, the sum of the parts don't equal the whole here.

Ouhei said:

You're ignoring that it's a turnkey certified race car, the sum of the parts don't equal the whole here.

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No I understand that but you are actually paying a hefty markup for nothing. I mean literally. Some words on a paper and some certification? That's a hefty mark up for ink. What I mean is I could take a regular street legal R and put a fraction of that money into it and have a car that performs better and I can drive it on the streets. I could fully understand if the Car had stuff in it like the TCR which has many many parts that are not retail. IM just saying for a car that is 85% stock retail that's a hefty mark up to get it classified. But I guess if you are in the racing world you have to buy what can be raced in a class. I'M just looking at it from a parts stand point. They just taking on a extra 30k cause they can basically. IM not doggin on honda they all do it. I'M just frustrated with all these companies marking things up so expensive just cause they can but not really giving any real value for that mark up.

Harlaquin said:

No I understand that but you are actually paying a hefty markup for nothing. I mean literally. Some words on a paper and some certification? That's a hefty mark up for ink. What I mean is I could take a regular street legal R and put a fraction of that money into it and have a car that performs better and I can drive it on the streets. I could fully understand if the Car had stuff in it like the TCR which has many many parts that are not retail. IM just saying for a car that is 85% stock retail that's a hefty mark up to get it classified. But I guess if you are in the racing world you have to buy what can be raced in a class. I'M just looking at it from a parts stand point. They just taking on a extra 30k cause they can basically. IM not doggin on honda they all do it. I'M just frustrated with all these companies marking things up so expensive just cause they can but not really giving any real value for that mark up.

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Yeah but like you said, it's for race teams that want to race in a certain class. For them the cost is cheaper than trying to change a stock type R into a car that meets the class requirements (maybe not pure $ wise, but taking into account time and other resources). The market isn't the general public at all. We don't know what else is built into the cost and why it costs what it does, I would guess some of the cost associated with running the race series is in there or something similar.

I'm not trying to argue it's a bargain, but it's not meant for us so it doesn't really matter.

Ouhei said:

Yeah but like you said, it's for race teams that want to race in a certain class. For them the cost is cheaper than trying to change a stock type R into a car that meets the class requirements (maybe not pure $ wise, but taking into account time and other resources). The market isn't the general public at all. We don't know what else is built into the cost and why it costs what it does, I would guess some of the cost associated with running the race series is in there or something similar.

I'm not trying to argue it's a bargain, but it's not meant for us so it doesn't really matter.

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Oh I know and IM not arguing either I was just saying. As soon as you put race on anything the markup goes crazy. Example: I use to work for Borg Warner and at the time I did we produced harmonic balancers for Ford. One in particular fit several trucks and it was also the same part in their performance catalog for cars. We produced and sold them for 4.27 to Ford if I remember correctly. On regular trucks the part was somewhere around 30 bucks in parts catalogs but in the performance catalog the same exact part was 420 dollars. As soon as you put performance or race on something the cost goes crazy and for really little to nothing in return for that high cost.

I want that 16-gal fuel tank. The current one barely lasts 200 miles in local driving at 20mpg and I granny shift like a mofo.

gjurrens said:

According to a friend of mine who I believe is "in the know" these cars are strictly spec-racers and cannot be registered for the road (apparently the VIN cannot be registered) although I'm not sure if this is universally true. There should be lots of cool parts available for our street-legal play toys, though! BTW, he mentioned that the Ariel Atom 4 is out with a clean sheet design, and the latest Type R engine! To be street legal in the USA, they ship you boxes of parts that you have to assemble! The only problem with the video I watched is that it seems to only drive on the right hand side of the road! LOL

Here's a link: https://www.motor1.com/news/251941/ariel-atom-4-revealed/

Video:

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It can registered as a kit car in USA but it is not assembled by the owner.

They’ve been using Honda engines for a while but the Type R engine is something new. Pretty slick.


You can buy them at the link below, but you’re better off building a factory five 818 or a Exocet as the atom is just stupid expensive, a low spec model new is near or over 100k while you can buy and build an Exocet in your garage for less than 30.

https://www.arielna.com/

I’m actually contemplating a Exocet build since i live in Atlanta Ga where the kits are built. Kits run 7-10k and you need a donor miata, but you can use many different engines. They purposely make it to fit the miata and LS series of engines.

http://exomotive.com/

the factory five 818 kit is similarly priced but uses the Subaru boxer drive train which you’ll need to purchase separately.

https://www.factoryfive.com/

Ouhei said:

Yeah but like you said, it's for race teams that want to race in a certain class. For them the cost is cheaper than trying to change a stock type R into a car that meets the class requirements (maybe not pure $ wise, but taking into account time and other resources). The market isn't the general public at all. We don't know what else is built into the cost and why it costs what it does, I would guess some of the cost associated with running the race series is in there or something similar.

I'm not trying to argue it's a bargain, but it's not meant for us so it doesn't really matter.

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Yeah - What he said... exactly.

And - yes as I read elsewhere you need a pro license to apply to buy one.

You're paying for two things: R&D and support, which are kinda related. The R&D is that Honda spent probably over 100k (maybe much more) paying for the time of a few engineers down in Santa Clarita for a couple months and track time to test to make sure all the parts work well together. They deserve to recoup these costs.

The other thing is that there might be a little black magic, that is, maybe the oil coolers have to be ducted just so and the plumbing has to be just right, and maybe there's a new water pump they didn't put on the spec list, or a new ECU map is key to getting everything right. So perhaps if you bought everything and tried to recreate the car, it wouldn't exactly be the same. If you're doing DEs, or racing just for fun, and don't mind sorting the car over time, more power to you. But if you just want to go racing, the turn-key cost is worth it to a lot of people. (That kinda racing is out of my league though!) Then you can call up HPD if your car is having issues and get guidance.

Another anecdote covers the Porsche GT4. Porsche made a race version, similar in scope to the CTR TC car, and sold it for about 180k (GT4 clubsport, while the street car cost 85k). Many teams picked one or two up and raced them regionally or as part of the continental tire challenge series (GS class) and at Daytona. This car had a dual clutch PDK transmission while the street car is a 6-speed manual. One team, and only one as far as I know, developed a street car to meet the race rules. It was badass to see it driven in race conditions with a manual when most other cars (GT4s or otherwise) had flappy paddles. However, it wasn't worth it for any other team to do the same.

remc86007 said:

^It's hard to reconcile posts like that with the many videos on YouTube from people like Eddy Segal who, with a relatively minor amount of upgrades, seem to be able to turn lap after lap at a very, very fast pace.

I've raced my CTR in the summer in Florida at Daytona and Firm and the coolant temp guage hasn't moved. At Firm my wife and I drove a combined seven 20min sessions. Sure, it wore through the brakes and tires, but what do you expect with a 300hp+ car?

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Don't believe everything you see on youtube. lol. I'm sure Eddy will chime in here soon but even he's asked me about how to resolve the overheating issues.

As for your sessions at firm.... Lots of and lots of factors involved in whether the car overheats or not. It's been discussed before but basically a lot of it revolves around the driver and ambient temps.