2018 SI - Upgrade Components or Just Tweeters?

Fountainhead said:

I would kill for an equalizer add on that would work on iOS devices... otherwise I’m gonna have to curve it and hopefully add a passive network to the front tweeters to tame the factory boost around the 2-4K area. Changing to silk dome teeeters did help a lot though.

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I agree that the Polk tweeters are way less painful than the factory tweets. If you put in a network to tame the boost, I recommend focusing on killing the 1-2 khz and leaving the 3-4 alone. My measurements suggest there is a bit of a hole from 4 up to 8khz and I would not want to make that worse:

[Above plot should not be trusted above 12 khz. Was acquired with AudioTools (iOS) on a 2017 Touring sedan with subwoofer at left 6 clicks, bass left 6 clicks, mid rage center and treble left 3 clicks.]

Speaking of non-DSP polk tweeter hacks, if you go to the fabric store and get some 10 mil closed-cell foam like is used by the cos-players and put that in front of the tweeter, you can tame the 8 khz to 12 khz peak:

[Above plot should not be trusted above 12 khz. Was acquired with AudioTools (iOS) on a 2017 Touring sedan with subwoofer at left 6 clicks, bass left 2 clicks, mid rage right 2 clicks and treble left 3 clicks.]

whataboutism said:

I agree that the Polk tweeters are way less painful than the factory tweets. If you put in a network to tame the boost, I recommend focusing on killing the 1-2 khz and leaving the 3-4 alone. My measurements suggest there is a bit of a hole from 4 up to 8khz and I would not want to make that worse:

[Above plot should not be trusted above 12 khz. Was acquired with AudioTools (iOS) on a 2017 Touring sedan with subwoofer at left 6 clicks, bass left 6 clicks, mid rage center and treble left 3 clicks.]

Speaking of non-DSP polk tweeter hacks, if you go to the fabric store and get some 10 mil closed-cell foam like is used by the cos-players and put that in front of the tweeter, you can tame the 8 khz to 12 khz peak:

[Above plot should not be trusted above 12 khz. Was acquired with AudioTools (iOS) on a 2017 Touring sedan with subwoofer at left 6 clicks, bass left 2 clicks, mid rage right 2 clicks and treble left 3 clicks.]

Click to expand...

Hi,

Thanks for the curves, am I correct in assuming the first curve is factory tweets? Wouldn't it have been better to curve them flat (well as flat as the factory dsp is set a mid '0" point anyway)?
Also is the 2nd curve for the same settings as the first curve but with foam?
Were these curves taken in the drivers seat?

Do you have the Larsa add-on box? If so do you like it? We have a measurement system but it's all set up and calibrated and we try not to move it around, especially into the parking lot, lol.

what brought up the low mids that are down in the first curve, did you change anything other than the foam?

Fountainhead said:

Hi,

Thanks for the curves, am I correct in assuming the first curve is factory tweets? Wouldn't it have been better to curve them flat (well as flat as the factory dsp is set a mid '0" point anyway)?

Click to expand...

I did not take measurements of the factory system as at the time I just wanted to get those tweeters into the trash where they belonged. The first plot is with Polk DB1001 with no modifications other than headend bass/mids/treble adjustment to get them alright.

Fountainhead said:

Also is the 2nd curve for the same settings as the first curve but with foam?
Were these curves taken in the drivers seat?

Click to expand...

The second set of curves were with 10 mil of foam across both tweeters. It makes it slightly dark but more listenable.

The curves are the average of 8 positions between the left of the drivers seat headrest all the way over to the passenger seat headrest.

Fountainhead said:

Do you have the Larsa add-on box? If so do you like it? We have a measurement system but it's all set up and calibrated and we try not to move it around, especially into the parking lot, lol.

Click to expand...

I used the LARSA add on for the above plots, but I have also run REW with a dayton calibrated mic. I strongly prefer this setup as it is calibrated. Sorry I didn't post those plots as I only recently figured out how to use REW on this car. There is no aux input so to use REW you have to save a sweep to a wave file on a usb stick and then use the civic headend to play the wave file. I recommend padding the wave file with 10 seconds of silence at the beginnning. Then you can set REW to wait for the timing sync pulse and it will automatically acquire when the headend plays the wave off the usb.

This lets you get quality calibrated readings up to 22 khz. The LARSA on the iphone can't be trusted above 12 khz and I'm not sure how much I trust it below that.

At any rate, when it comes to setup the DSP I am going to use REW with a calibrated mic. It's more ponderous to operate than Audiotools with LARSA but it's traceable.

Fountainhead said:

what brought up the low mids that are down in the first curve, did you change anything other than the foam?

Click to expand...

I changed the bass from left 6 clicks to left 2 clicks. That brought back some of the low mids. I was just plain wrong on my tone settings for the top plot.

whataboutism said:

I did not take measurements of the factory system as at the time I just wanted to get those tweeters into the trash where they belonged. The first plot is with Polk DB1001 with no modifications other than headend bass/mids/treble adjustment to get them alright.



The second set of curves were with 10 mil of foam across both tweeters. It makes it slightly dark but more listenable.

The curves are the average of 8 positions between the left of the drivers seat headrest all the way over to the passenger seat headrest.



I used the LARSA add on for the above plots, but I have also run REW with a dayton calibrated mic. I strongly prefer this setup as it is calibrated. Sorry I didn't post those plots as I only recently figured out how to use REW on this car. There is no aux input so to use REW you have to save a sweep to a wav file on a usb stick and then use the civic headend to play the wav file. I recommend padding the wav file with 10 seconds of silence at the beginning. Then you can set REW to wait for the timing sync pulse and it will automatically acquire when the headend plays the wave off the usb.

This lets you get quality calibrated readings up to 22 khz. The LARSA on the iphone can't be trusted above 12 khz and I'm not sure how much I trust it below that.

At any rate, when it comes to setup the DSP I am going to use REW with a calibrated mic. It's more ponderous to operate than Audiotools with LARSA but it's traceable.



I changed the bass from left 6 clicks to left 2 clicks. That brought back some of the low mids. I was just plain wrong on my tone settings for the top plot.

Click to expand...

Awesome, that all makes sense now. We're experimenting with DIRAC so we have a UMIK-1 mic and sometime this week I'll take the laptop to the car and see what I can do.
I'll post the results in this thread, I've also got the dB tweeters but without the foam.

Thanks again!

Lagos said:

Just wanted to give you guys an update...

I consulted with Crutchfield and based on their recommendation I went with Infinity Reference components, due to them being know to work well with a factory amp.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R6530CM/Infinity-Reference-REF-6530cx.html

It's a substantial difference in clarity and sound quality over the stock speakers. The tweeters are nice and smooth sounding and there is just a lot more detail in the mid to high range. Sound output is the same or maybe slightly louder than the stock speakers. I wired these directly and did not use the supplied crossover as from my understanding the SI has a factory amp with its own filtering.

I also used this foam during the install:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only down side was with the tweeter install. I had to do some cutting of the adapter brackets that they supply to make things work. I got a nice clean install, but the tweeters stick out more than the factory ones did. Not really a big deal, just something to be aware of.

Click to expand...

Do you have a picture of how you installed/mounted the tweeters?

Lagos said:

Just wanted to give you guys an update...

I consulted with Crutchfield and based on their recommendation I went with Infinity Reference components, due to them being know to work well with a factory amp.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_108R6530CM/Infinity-Reference-REF-6530cx.html

It's a substantial difference in clarity and sound quality over the stock speakers. The tweeters are nice and smooth sounding and there is just a lot more detail in the mid to high range. Sound output is the same or maybe slightly louder than the stock speakers. I wired these directly and did not use the supplied crossover as from my understanding the SI has a factory amp with its own filtering.

I also used this foam during the install:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076MM4DJV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The only down side was with the tweeter install. I had to do some cutting of the adapter brackets that they supply to make things work. I got a nice clean install, but the tweeters stick out more than the factory ones did. Not really a big deal, just something to be aware of.

Click to expand...

I also installed the Infinity Reference 6530cx components up front. I am curious to know why you did not replace the center speaker with the Infinity Reference 3022cfx 3-1/2" speaker for the center channel. Were you looking for a less sensitive speaker in the JL Audio 350x?

Thanks for responding.

DOZOIR said:

I also installed the Infinity Reference 6530cx components up front. I am curious to know why you did not replace the center speaker with the Infinity Reference 3022cfx 3-1/2" speaker for the center channel. Were you looking for a less sensitive speaker in the JL Audio 350x?

Thanks for responding.

Click to expand...

Can't speak for the OP but I tried a 350x for the center and it was loud, harsh, and stuck out against the Alpine speakers and tweeters I installed. I got rid of it and used a matching alpine coaxial speaker for the center.

Maybe it's a good speaker but in my experience with the signal the factory amp sends to the center, it sounded awful.

Lagos said:

I recently started to upgrade the audio system in my SI. So far I have replaced the center channel to the Jl Audio C2-350x and installed a Rockford Fosgate P300-10T sub in the trunk. I'm looking to improve the door speakers next. My original plan was to go with the JL C2-650 components since that's what I went with for the center channel, but after doing some research on this forum, I see that people have had some mixed results with the components sometimes sounding worse than stock.

Just wanted to get some feedback from others who have done their components? Should I stick with the original plan or just pick up a set of C2-075ct 0.75" Tweeters and leave the door woofers stock? Are there better brands to consider ?

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I just purchased the same speakers and was wondering if you used the supplied crossover. I’ve read that it’s not necessary on the Si.

No need to use the crossover on an si since the factory amp is already crossed over.

soxfan said:

I just purchased the same speakers and was wondering if you used the supplied crossover. I’ve read that it’s not necessary on the Si.

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Hi, I recently purchased the Hertz K-170's and am unhappy with the tweeters so I am considering replacing them with the Infinity 6530's. Did you finish your install and how was the sound compared to the OEM speakers?

WF19 said:

Hi, I recently purchased the Hertz K-170's and am unhappy with the tweeters so I am considering replacing them with the Infinity 6530's. Did you finish your install and how was the sound compared to the OEM speakers?

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I love them. I had to turn the treble down though to get things sounding right.

I used Rockford Fosgate tweeters, I like them, anything is better than the OEM

soxfan said:

I love them. I had to turn the treble down though to get things sounding right.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Did you use the crossovers and how was the tweeter install?

WF19 said:

Thanks for the response. Did you use the crossovers and how was the tweeter install?

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I didn’t use the crossovers and I ended up paying a professional to install the tweeters. I think they used dynamat or something similar to hold them against the factory grills.

If you ask me, it's hard to get good/natural sound by mixing mids and tweeters from different brands because of difference in timbre. But if someone found a good combo, then go with that!