Questions on AFR and ignition timing

esker said:

Yes, same behavior with Malaysia model as well. I had to tune the MAF scaling myself to correct the fuel trim.

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Hi i'm also from Malaysia. Are you using stock intake? Are you seeing high negative fuel trim with the stock intake? At idle STFT will hover around -12% to -17%

brandonckc said:

Hi i'm also from Malaysia. Are you using stock intake? Are you seeing high negative fuel trim with the stock intake? At idle STFT will hover around -12% to -17%

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Yes, stock intake, fuel trim runs like shit with factory MAF as well as Ktuner's updated scaled MAF setting.
I custom tuned the the entire MAF curve for my car.

This is the comparison between the factory MAF (red) and my tuned MAF (blue) for your reference.

esker said:

Yes, stock intake, fuel trim runs like shit with factory MAF as well as Ktuner's updated scaled MAF setting.
I custom tuned the the entire MAF curve for my car.

This is the comparison between the factory MAF (red) and my tuned MAF (blue) for your reference.

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Bro, can share some details on how you did the maf scaling?

I believe ktuner for your ECU also only has initial support, so you can only do a close loop run and adjust from your close loop log which may not be accurate.

calvin13386 said:

Bro, can share some details on how you did the maf scaling?

I believe ktuner for your ECU also only has initial support, so you can only do a close loop run and adjust from your close loop log which may not be accurate.

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https://www.civicx.com/threads/ktuner-stft-ltft-tuning.20980/

Both close loop and open loop are tuned

esker said:

https://www.civicx.com/threads/ktuner-stft-ltft-tuning.20980/

Both close loop and open loop are tuned

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Your version of ktuner able to set the ltft to 0% to make it open loop?

Supposedly I believe our ECU are only initial support which doesn't have this option available to us.

calvin13386 said:

Your version of ktuner able to set the ltft to 0% to make it open loop?

Supposedly I believe our ECU are only initial support which doesn't have this option available to us.

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LTFT is disabled in our ECU version, which is why you will always see its value as -100 in datalog.
By the way, LTFT has nothing to do with open loop. Do a datalog, look under Fuel Stat column, to understand when the ECU switch between CL and OL operations.

i managed to adjust my AFR by scaling the MAF too. Much nicer AFR across the board but will fine tune later on after couple of upgrades, just a drop in K&N for now.

Haven't touch the ign & others much yet, waiting for mods to be completed then will custom final tune on dyno. atm just minor "butt" dyno tune with small tweaks.

Idle trims are much better ranges from -5% to 0% it does jumps around time to time but it's not as far as stock which is very rich, cruise is about the same.

esker said:

LTFT is disabled in our ECU version, which is why you will always see its value as -100 in datalog.
By the way, LTFT has nothing to do with open loop. Do a datalog, look under Fuel Stat column, to understand when the ECU switch between CL and OL operations.

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I checked back on my datalog for a random run, my LTFT is not -100 so supposedly mine should be close loop.

I wonder something. if honda has created such rich stock maps maybe there will be a reason?

it's a profane question, I understand that there are rules of operation, but only honda really knows why he did it

Isn't it risky to make the mixture leaner?

Andre80 said:

I wonder something. if honda has created such rich stock maps maybe there will be a reason?

it's a profane question, I understand that there are rules of operation, but only honda really knows why he did it

Isn't it risky to make the mixture leaner?

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Honda used to sepwrate EU regions by codes. For instance KG was Austria, Germany, Greece and a few other countries that I cant recall. One of the reasons was the different trims between markets.

Weather conditions vary between say Finland and Greece or Italy, but nowadays the EU is considered to be one country, since laws, petrol, even road building standards apply to all EU countries. So, in order for Honda to make sure that their first gen of mass production petrol turbo engines maintain the infamous reliability across various conditions for weather and terren (The Netherlands are flat, Austria not ao much...!), while making the same power under all conditions and emmiting the same CO2 levels in all conditions, tuned the ECUs respectively.

I have yet no idea if my ECU switches from OL to CL. What I know for sure is that while the knock control is stuck to 0.48/0.49, as soon as I go WOT it rises to 0.74.

Granted I still run the base Ktuner dual 21 PSI so maybe custom tuning with more aggressive timing advance this will improve.
But it should be a given that there are very good reasons for Honda running rich on certain conditions, cause lets face it, the L15 runs amazing average mpg (or l/km for my EU fellowmen!)

Andre80 said:

I wonder something. if honda has created such rich stock maps maybe there will be a reason?

it's a profane question, I understand that there are rules of operation, but only honda really knows why he did it

Isn't it risky to make the mixture leaner?

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Don't forget that this rich mixture occurs at high boost. Understand that this situation is an emergency and would not occur during normal operations and as such, the default code will go rich and retard timing to protect the engine from an "overboost" condition ;-)

varge said:

Don't forget that this rich mixture occurs at high boost. Understand that this situation is an emergency and would not occur during normal operations and as such, the default code will go rich and retard timing to protect the engine from an "overboost" condition ;-)

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On my ECU, the starter ktuner dual 21PSI on WOT does 10.8 AFR which is pretty good for a starter, safe "tune-for-all". What I dont know, is if the K.control derives from mapping or is an automated procedure from the ECU. I get steady 0.49(or 0.48) even at 60% throttle on 3rd gear, but full WOT (TPS 113%), 4th gear and above I get 0.74 with 20.8PSI which is again spot-on. Would say 0.64 or lower give more power?

I dont know how much boost the stock turbo can hold reliably and I havent felt the clutch slip one bit. Then again, I never go WOT below 3800 or so RPM. Must definately do a custom tune but not until I get an option for error disabling, cause I want to install a catted downpipe, which will probably trigger the CEL and I have no way of turning it off right now.

Anger said:

On my ECU, the starter ktuner dual 21PSI on WOT does 10.8 AFR which is pretty good for a starter, safe "tune-for-all". What I dont know, is if the K.control derives from mapping or is an automated procedure from the ECU. I get steady 0.49(or 0.48) even at 60% throttle on 3rd gear, but full WOT (TPS 113%), 4th gear and above I get 0.74 with 20.8PSI which is again spot-on. Would say 0.64 or lower give more power?

I dont know how much boost the stock turbo can hold reliably and I havent felt the clutch slip one bit. Then again, I never go WOT below 3800 or so RPM. Must definately do a custom tune but not until I get an option for error disabling, cause I want to install a catted downpipe, which will probably trigger the CEL and I have no way of turning it off right now.

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Can you check your logs for the Fuel Status (2 or 4) and STFT during WOT ?

varge said:

Can you check your logs for the Fuel Status (2 or 4) and STFT during WOT ?

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Forum doesnt let me upload the datalog (.kdlg).

STFT during WOT from 2nd to 5th was 0.

Fuel stat on WOT says 4. When switching gears it says for a sec 1, then 2, then 4.

K.control started at 0.49, rose to 0.56 at redline 2nd (redline on Ktuner says 6643rpm...!), by 4th gear it is at 0.7.

5th gear, k.control is 0.77.

I also see "Misfired Cyl 3". Should I be worried? On another log I saw: Misfired Cyl 3,4.

AFR CMD starts from 13.33 at lower RPM and near the limit is 10.48, while AFR is 10.33 and AFR ADJ is 11.15

IAT2 is higher than IAT after long pulls.

Again, should I be worried about misfires? Do you recommend any specific spark plugs?

Anger said:

Forum doesnt let me upload the datalog (.kdlg).

STFT during WOT from 2nd to 5th was 0.

Fuel stat on WOT says 4. When switching gears it says for a sec 1, then 2, then 4.

K.control started at 0.49, rose to 0.56 at redline 2nd (redline on Ktuner says 6643rpm...!), by 4th gear it is at 0.7.

5th gear, k.control is 0.77.

I also see "Misfired Cyl 3". Should I be worried? On another log I saw: Misfired Cyl 3,4.

AFR CMD starts from 13.33 at lower RPM and near the limit is 10.48, while AFR is 10.33 and AFR ADJ is 11.15

IAT2 is higher than IAT after long pulls.

Again, should I be worried about misfires? Do you recommend any specific spark plugs?

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STFT at 0 and status of 4 mean Open Loop for you as well, welcome to the EUDM ECU club
Your K.Control is fine for this long pull and Misfires / Knock Count are to be ignored on our platforms, as is AFR Adj (so you keep your eye on AFR)
IAT2 is post intercooler so it makes sense that it rises higher than IAT (measured on the intake) during long pulls with a stock I/C