NEXT Type R versus 2016 Focus RS

There are a lot of unknowns yet but the new Focus RS has got my attention. Do I wait?

New guy here and wanted to poll the members here on which HiPo car wins. Here's my thinking so far on the pros and cons so far for the Type R -

WIN:
- Type R should be several thousand cheaper
- It's a Honda NOT a Ford, should be better quality, fewer build issues, better fit and finish, fewer recalls, more reliable
- Yes it's FWD versus AWD but the claim of fastest FWD is a big engineering feat. Also don't love the feel of AWD cars, it adds weight and is more expensive/complex for repairs etc.
Type R has a cooler badge/image and racing history than the Focus RS. It's an iconic name whereas the RS is newer and has less street cred.
Better resale value
Possibly more body styles with the Type R?? (hoping)
Better gas mileage, lower insurance?


LOSE:
- POWER the most obvious loss here. The RS is going to be a monster or at least it appears so on paper.
- Better availability in the US? Ford being a domestic company and its factories here. This is just a guess as I have not been keeping up with where production will be and how many are planned for production. Could affect mark ups as Im sure both cars will have a ton of demand being the first time they are offered in the US.
- Design and specs are already known. The Type R is a total mystery right now. Bird in the hand type of thing..

TOSS-UP:
- Design is 50/50 for me. I love the new Civic's look but the hatch's spy photos did not blow me away with its lack of traditional hot hatch roofline. The Focus RS does but has Ford's corporate front end which is just OK for me but I am warming up to it.

Thoughts?

Honestly for me the power is way more than enough in the CTR even if it's less than the RS. It already laps the Nurburgring as fast as some exotics, how much faster do you really need a car to be on the road or the track. Anything faster / higher hp is really just for bench racing bragging rights.

With production, I don't think where the car is built will affect supply. The companies are going to build what they think is an appropriate number based on their predicted demand.

Im not one of the honda zealots on here so for me if I could afford the RS I would be all in even though the Type R looks awesome and promising it still is FWD vs AWD, and the RS will smoke most cars even some a class above

Pound for pound the CTR wins imo. You don't have to be a Honda zealot to believe that. Then again it's not exactly a fair comparison since you are paying for a lot more power and complexity with the AWD setup. We are not just talking about delivering more power to the wheels, the RS has a heavily tuned version of the new 2.3L that they stuck in a Mustang. The CTR will be no match for it in terms of 1/4 mile, lap times etc, but it will destroy anything comparably priced I believe.

CB22 said:

Type R has a cooler badge/image and racing history than the Focus RS. It's an iconic name whereas the RS is newer and has less street cred.

Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Team_RS

If I were keeping a "race car" over 60-80K, probably Type R. Otherwise Focus RS. Both quick for different reasons. Both very capable on the track.

That said, if I were going to use as a daily, Golf R hands down.

To me it really comes down to this....

Do you want FWD or AWD?

Yes, they are both hot hatches, but just like the Golf R, its not a direct comparison. Where the power is being put down makes a big difference. I had a pair of Evo Xs and three Sis. There is a big difference on how an AWD vehicle behaves, especially if it has torque vectoring. Personally, I feel that 300HP is the most I would want in a FWD drive car. If my plan was to eventually get into the 400-500 HP range, I would want AWD if the choice was between the two.

Price

I don't believe the US spec Type R will be that much cheaper than the Focus RS. The Ford starts at around $36k. The new Type R, if I had to make an educated guess, will be at least $32k. That $4k does not make such a huge difference in a monthly payment. Unless you're planning to pay cash for the car and only have $30k or so, you could probably afford both.

History

The RS badge in Europe has much racing pedigree as the Type R does in Japan. Maybe even more. In America the RS has virtually no history while the Type R has just enough to wet your beak, with the very limited Integra Type R. However, I would dare say that the majority of Honda fans in America have never, ever seen a legit Type R in the flesh, let alone driven one.

Reliability

Next question please...

Serious though, I've had so many make cars, including Fords, that I can honestly say that while Hondas are not 100% bullet proof (nothing in this world is), they are indeed more reliable and better built than anything else, with the exception of maybe Lexus (which are built to insane, stringent requirements).

Advice

If you want AWD, get the Ford. Price will be close enough that both will be within your reach. They both look good, which looks best to you is another story. In the end, though, if you are a Honda fan and like how they drive, a different performance car out there is not really going to change your mind. Going back to the Evos I had, as much as they were much faster than any Honda I owned, I still had more fun driving a Honda vehicle, ironically enough. No one makes a manual transmission like Honda, in addition to engines that not only love to rev, but are super smooth in the process.

If you are not a Honda fan, but simply like the cars they make (which there's nothing wrong with that), then maybe waiting for the RS is right for you.




You wanna know how you could easily determine which car you really want? Answer this simple question.

If both the Type R and RS were priced the same, which one would you choose?

I personally always tie the process of attaining a girlfriend to that of purchasing a new car. Both are investments of time and money. Both can leave you as a grown man sobbing in the shower when a bad decision is made or they choose to screw you.

I cut out a lot of the bullshit through a test drive. I can look at the numbers, the pictures, the consumer/homie reviews but in the end, the test drive tells me whether or not I would really want this car/girl.

These two vehicles are going to be put against each other simply due to size, price and platform. But when I look at time attack competitions here in Southern California, I look at owning one that will have to compete with Evos, GT-Rs and STIs, and the other which will be competing against other FWD platforms. Basically other Hondas.

Lastly, the two are bound to drive drastically different than one another. In the end, you're comparing a FWD and AWD car with one another. For me, late braking into corners inducing an ever increasing slip angle in the rear upon entry and pulling straight with the front wheels is pure bliss. Gobs of power and doing AWD drifts is fun too, but generally not the same joy for myself.

Edit: Ford has normally done a GREAT job in supporting their performance cars with race programs and OEM performance parts. I would have to say they failed at doing this with the ST models of the Fiesta and Focus. If they nail it right with the RS, it will be in the benefit of every RS owner. Honda Racing on the other hand keeps all their parts for sanctioned racers versus the general public.

The previous focus rs was able to handle 420hp very easily with fwd setup which I believe Honda based their system off of. Jay Leno did a review on a 2010 and IMHO I think type r was based off that version of rs. I remember gm built a cobalt ss that beat some pretty hefty competition including modded gtr. Honda has already said they have an even better version waiting on deck, which hopefully will be 2017 ctr, but who knows. I wouldn't go crazy with hp on fwd, but I believe type r can handle more than most people think reasonably. For crazy hp go focus rs, but I think stock vs stock trim civic type r will feel better, but that's a guesstimate at this point.