What did you do to your Type R today?

Zeffy94

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My front right was thrashed and it never really gets cold enough here for the MPSC2s to crack (24F is about as cold as we get), so I figured why not?
Damn dude, on mornings in the 30s with my PS4s on (before I swapped them) I felt like the car was not as stable as it should be when swerving around obstacles lol.
 

willskiGT

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Damn dude, on mornings in the 30s with my PS4s on (before I swapped them) I felt like the car was not as stable as it should be when swerving around obstacles lol.
In dry weather (even when it's cold), summers still have a lot more grip than all seasons or winter tires. Where you run into trouble is when there is snow/ice/sleet on the road.
 

willskiGT

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This is completely false. :doh:
A common misconception - It's completely true!

If you are driving on cold (20F to 40F) but dry roads, summer tires are far superior to winter or all season tires in braking distance and lateral grip. In many cases, the summer tires will beat the all season and winter tires in wet braking and handling as well.

Winter tires are ideal for driving on ice/snow (summers are hopeless), but if you rarely or never encounter those road surfaces, a summer tire is best.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Auto-Bild-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

https://jalopnik.com/winter-tires-are-great-for-ice-and-snow-but-not-on-dry-1821468055
 
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TheSnakeJake

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A common misconception - It's completely true!

If you are driving on cold (20F to 40F) but dry roads, summer tires are far superior to winter or all season tires in braking distance and lateral grip. In many cases, the summer tires will beat the all season and winter tires in wet braking and handling as well.

Winter tires are ideal for driving on ice/snow (summers are hopeless), but if you rarely or never encounter those road surfaces, a summer tire is best.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Auto-Bild-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

https://jalopnik.com/winter-tires-are-great-for-ice-and-snow-but-not-on-dry-1821468055
this is BS. that auto bild test has no credibility because they don't state at what temperature they tested. high performance summer compounds are not meant to drive in cold weather. the manufacturers have warnings stating this. the compound becomes hard and will for sure lose traction the colder it gets. of course it can be done, but that doesn't mean it should. the summer compounds are also prone to cracking when under load at below freezing temperatures.
 

willskiGT

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this is BS. that auto bild test has no credibility because they don't state at what temperature they tested. high performance summer compounds are not meant to drive in cold weather. the manufacturers have warnings stating this. the compound becomes hard and will for sure lose traction the colder it gets. of course it can be done, but that doesn't mean it should. the summer compounds are also prone to cracking when under load at below freezing temperatures.
Please provide quantitative data proving me wrong. I have provided 2 data sources, one of which is a highly respected auto magazine. You have simply stated an opinion. The Auto Bild test is the largest winter tire test in the world and is conducted annually. This year, the test was actually conducted in Japan to ensure that the appropriate temperatures and snow could be found. The temperatures are cold enough for them to test on snow, so at a minimum it is 32F/0C.

At temps above 20F, with no ice or snow on the road, summer tires outperform winter and all season tires.

Yes, summer tires have less traction in colder temperatures than they do in warmer temperatures, but they still have more traction than winter tires in the absence of snow/ice.
 
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TheSnakeJake

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Please provide quantitative data proving me wrong. I have provided 2 data sources, one of which is a highly respected auto magazine. You have simply stated an opinion. The Auto Bild test is the largest winter tire test in the world and is conducted annually. This year, the test was actually conducted in Japan to ensure that the appropriate temperatures and snow could be found. The temperatures are cold enough for them to test on snow, so at a minimum it is 32F/0C.

At temps above 20F, with no ice or snow on the road, summer tires outperform winter and all season tires.

Yes, summer tires have less traction in colder temperatures than they do in warmer temperatures, but they still have more traction than winter tires in the absence of snow/ice.
Here you go, from TireRack:

https://m.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=273
 

r712

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Yeah I was gonna say that the 'glass transition' is the key part of the argument. Even if it was true that you can get more grip from a summer tire in low temps, you risk the structure of your tire and therefore your safety. For that reason alone, I'd feel uncomfortable riding summers during winter - regardless of dry/wet/icy road conditions.

https://mobiloil.com/en/article/travel-and-safety/road-safety-tips/using-summer-tires-in-winter
https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/03/performance-tires-crack-winter-cracking/index.htm
https://www.discounttire.com/learn/winter-summer-allseason
https://www.continental-tires.com/c...fitting/changing-tires/summer-tires-in-winter
https://michelinmedia.com/pages/blog/detail/article/c/a575/
 

alvav

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A common misconception - It's completely true!

If you are driving on cold (20F to 40F) but dry roads, summer tires are far superior to winter or all season tires in braking distance and lateral grip. In many cases, the summer tires will beat the all season and winter tires in wet braking and handling as well.

Winter tires are ideal for driving on ice/snow (summers are hopeless), but if you rarely or never encounter those road surfaces, a summer tire is best.

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Auto-Bild-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

https://jalopnik.com/winter-tires-are-great-for-ice-and-snow-but-not-on-dry-1821468055
Completely completely completely wrong. The most important thing about a tire is its composition as opposed to its' tread. And temperature determines the behaviour if the material. A summer tire basically turns to glass in extreme cold. When it's really cold out, go squeeze the tread of a winter tire (will be "squishy"), a 4 season (will have some "give"), and a summer tire (won't budge; like squeezing cement).
 


willskiGT

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Completely completely completely wrong. The most important thing about a tire is its composition as opposed to its' tread. And temperature determines the behaviour if the material. A summer tire basically turns to glass in extreme cold. When it's really cold out, go squeeze the tread of a winter tire (will be "squishy"), a 4 season (will have some "give"), and a summer tire (won't budge; like squeezing cement).
It's like you didn't even click the links I posted (because obviously, you didn't, or you wouldn't have falsely claimed that I am wrong).

The data clearly shows that summer tires outperform winter tires while they are above glass transition temperature.

Yeah I was gonna say that the 'glass transition' is the key part of the argument. Even if it was true that you can get more grip from a summer tire in low temps, you risk the structure of your tire and therefore your safety. For that reason alone, I'd feel uncomfortable riding summers during winter - regardless of dry/wet/icy road conditions.
Empirically, it is indeed true that summer tires provide more grip in dry conditions than winter and all season tires. Please see the data I provided.

Well aware of glass transition behaviors of rubber, which is why you'll notice I specified operation in temperatures above 20F/-7C.

MPSC2 or similar extreme performance summer tires likely have a glass transition temperature (depending on which portion of the tread you're talking about) in the range of 0F to 20F/-18C to -7C. Above these temperatures (as previously stated and shown with data) the summers will outperform other tires. At or below this temperature, the tires are prone to cracking due to the rubber's lack of pliability.

Again, the true benefit of winter tires is during use on icy/snowy roadways, or in extremely cold temperatures. In these conditions (particularly ice and snow) they will far outperform summer tires.

I repeat, quantitative data/testing which proves what I have posted wrong. One link from Tire Rack without any data and a brief discussion of glass transition is not quantitative evidence. Just more opinion.
 
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MonkeyConQueso

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Can we go through one thread in winter without bringing this dumb argument again when tires are mentioned? Please? I feel like we need to sticky the following to the top so we can stop having the argument:

Yes, in cold 20F+ DRY weather, summers are perfectly fine (pay attention to the manufacturer comments at which temp tread will take damage, however). The issue is that in cold weather, it's never JUST dry, and conditions vary. Any moisture on a road, going over bridges, or a random dip in temperatures even below 20F will cause you to have unreliable traction raising your risk of causing or not avoiding an accident.

Winter tires are there for the winter months when things are not perfect, which is why some of us keep saying that, yes, if you DD any car in areas where temperatures stay consistently below 45F, you should have Winter tires for your safety as well as those around you.

As an aside, the Tyrereviews article has zero information on what temperature those conditions were tested in other than the assumption it was in winter, I guess? Seems like a miss on performance variables where temperatures matter.
 

alvav

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Well aware of glass transition behaviors of rubber, which is why you'll notice I specified operation in temperatures above 20F/-7C.
It's like you didn't even click the links I posted (because obviously, you didn't, or you wouldn't have falsely claimed that I am wrong).

The data clearly shows that summer tires outperform winter tires while they are above glass transition temperature.

Empirically, it is indeed true that summer tires provide more grip in dry conditions than winter and all season tires. Please see the data I provided.

Well aware of glass transition behaviors of rubber, which is why you'll notice I specified operation in temperatures above 20F/-7C.

MPSC2 or similar extreme performance summer tires likely have a glass transition temperature (depending on which portion of the tread you're talking about) in the range of 0F to 20F/-18C to -7C. Above these temperatures (as previously stated and shown with data) the summers will outperform other tires. At or below this temperature, the tires are prone to cracking due to the rubber's lack of pliability.

Again, the true benefit of winter tires is during use on icy/snowy roadways, or in extremely cold temperatures. In these conditions (particularly ice and snow) they will far outperform summer tires.



I repeat, quantitative data/testing which proves what I have posted wrong. One link from Tire Rack without any data and a brief discussion of glass transition is not quantitative evidence. Just more opinion.

Dude, this isn't opinion. Whoever is even thinking of installing winter tires lives in an area where it's under -7C MOST of the winter. If it only dips under that a few times, why on earth would someone consider buying winter tires. On top of that, most tire manufacturers do not recommend using summer tires below +5C as the rubber starts getting hard. Not one person has agreed with you. But you insist. Because you read something on a website that is certainly not run by scientists or engineers. You sound like someone that just refuses to admit that they're wrong, even when, you know, they are.
Bottom line: go ahead and drive your car in these temperatures with summers. I wouldn't.
 

alvav

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...forgot to mention that our owner's manual specifically warns against driving the car when temperatures dip below +5C (not 100% sure of this number but somewhere in this vicinity)
 

tinyman392

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...forgot to mention that our owner's manual specifically warns against driving the car when temperatures dip below +5C (not 100% sure of this number but somewhere in this vicinity)
The stock Continental's aren't supposed to go below 40F if I'm not mistaken. That's where the 5C is coming from. Again, in the event this happens, let the tires rest 24 hours before driving.
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