The Oil Thread

Dario1101 said:

Thanks for replying, @Design, I will send three oil analysis kits in the coming months. One will be my final UOA of the Mobil 1 0W-20 Extended Performance, one will be fresh out the bottle Amazon Synthetic 0W-20 oil (why not?), and the last one will be whenever I need to send in the Amazon Synthetic oil to get tested.

A quick note on the Mobil 1 Extended Performance currently in my vehicle, I can't remember if I mentioned it before. The oil itself was from the bottle on the previous oil change in the vehicle, about 7 months opened. I am not sure if this will have any impact on my analysis, but I will definitely make a comment about it when I send out the oil.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing. I was curious did you send a sample prior which is why they say there is nothing wrong and do they compare each subsequent results ? I was curious how much is it for an oil analysis ? I'm not surprised that Amazon oil is as good as it is. If you think about it, Amazon is a huge market and any supplier that gets this contract automatically has a big supplier to sell their product. If anything amazon has a reputation to maintain, so if there were issues with amazon oil, the company would do something immediately.

Does not surprise me that the quality is as good as others. I'd use it on my car, the bigger issue is sticking to oil change intervals vs. oil brand name imo.

Swordfish said:

Thanks for sharing. I was curious did you send a sample prior which is why they say there is nothing wrong and do they compare each subsequent results ? I was curious how much is it for an oil analysis ? I'm not surprised that Amazon oil is as good as it is. If you think about it, Amazon is a huge market and any supplier that gets this contract automatically has a big supplier to sell their product. If anything amazon has a reputation to maintain, so if there were issues with amazon oil, the company would do something immediately.

Does not surprise me that the quality is as good as others. I'd use it on my car, the bigger issue is sticking to oil change intervals vs. oil brand name imo.

Click to expand...

Yes! I have sent them two samples prior to the one I reported. They compare results so that way they can tell when something is amiss easier.
It's $28 per sample from that company, Blackstone Labs. That includes the shipping cost to you and from you back to their lab.
Indeed. I'm looking forward to using it if I am being honest.

just ordered castrol 0w-30 for my baby, instead shell 0w-20 crap that dealer wants to put in...
main diffrence betwen this two oils is HTHS ratings shell 0w-20, is european standard A1/B1 that means HTHS oil film strenght is 2.6 mPa*s
and for castrol HTHS strenght is >3.5 mPa*s under hight temperatures a3 will protect better, but i will have lower fuel ecenomy, i dont really care for fuel
just want engine and turbo are protected best at spirited driving, and last as long as possible
i told that to dealer service department and they were ok for me to bring my own oil, even that car is only 10 months old

cost is 13e or 14.41$ per litre, or 50$ for 3.7 qt, since i change oil 2x per year once before and after winter, average on 5k miles, oil cost me 100$ per year. i hope this avoids engine and turbo wear down the road, would like to keep this car for at least 10years

Never seen that oil before. Do an oil analysis on it when you change it so you can see how it performed.

None of the oil analysis reports we have, on any oil, show elevated wear numbers. A few of the people supplying reports do drive fast too.

Zodd said:

just ordered castrol 0w-30 for my baby, instead shell 0w-20 crap that dealer wants to put in...
main diffrence betwen this two oils is HTHS ratings shell 0w-20, is european standard A1/B1 that means HTHS oil film strenght is 2.6 mPa*s
and for castrol HTHS strenght is >3.5 mPa*s under hight temperatures a3 will protect better, but i will have lower fuel ecenomy, i dont really care for fuel
just want engine and turbo are protected best at spirited driving, and last as long as possible
i told that to dealer service department and they were ok for me to bring my own oil, even that car is only 10 months old

cost is 13e or 14.41$ per litre, or 50$ for 3.7 qt, since i change oil 2x per year once before and after winter, average on 5k miles, oil cost me 100$ per year. i hope this avoids engine and turbo wear down the road, would like to keep this car for at least 10years

Click to expand...

Oils have many parameters, and there is no oil that has everything "da best." That's because one parameter is often contradictory to another one. For example, an oil loaded with anti-wear and other additives can't at the same time be a low ash (low SAPS) oil that's the best for the emissions systems.

If you pick the oil that has especially elevated HTHS viscosity, it will likely trail in something else. So it's not like "the more the better."
The limit of 2.6 mPa s for the ACEA classifications is not accidental but likely supported by research. Maybe something like this:



This shows the wear of the piston rings at 130 C as a function of HTHS viscosity. It clearly suggests that HTHS viscosity increase above 2.6 mPa s does not reduce the wear any further.

Of course this is not the last word, and it's just one result on the piston ring wear, but I don't think you know any more than whoever did these experiments and the oil companies who might base their formulations on it.

So, if you decide to stick to this one property, you may not only get no advantage, but instead lose on something else, which might be more important for your engine.

Btw. this graph is copied from a youtube video on testing oils by a Russian guy named Denis Mechanic. He does a baking test, volatility test, friction/wear test, etc. in three videos. It may be interesting to watch for all of you oil afficionados. Of course it's much more interesting if you understand any Russian. In what counts the most to me (friction and wear) Mobil 1 was "da best" of the tested oils.

i understand no oil can be best in all conditions, but if civic manual say use acea a3/a5 there is no way i am putting a1 in
i will stick to honda engineers who build the engine to be most reliable what is best for engine, and manual say a3 or a5 (a5 is hths min 2.9)
i will not use a1 (hths 2.6), there is no reason not to use oils honda recomends, really dont want to gamble with reliablilty down the road
cars here are expensive enough to buy this civic 1.5 costed me 23k euros or 2 years of what i earn and i have decent pay job

Changed the oil today without lifting the car. It was actually much harder than it seems. Very little space to work in

Swordfish said:

Changed the oil today without lifting the car. It was actually much harder than it seems. Very little space to work in

Click to expand...

Changing oil without raising the car seems very hard to me. I wouldn't do it. However driving up onto a set of ramps, it becomes a piece of cake. I spent too many years jacking up cars and using jack stands when I should have purchased ramps.

Swordfish said:

Changed the oil today without lifting the car. It was actually much harder than it seems. Very little space to work in

Click to expand...

Harder than it seems? It seems practically impossible to me, so it can't be any harder than that. Just reaching the screws of the bottom cover must be hard, and then you can't see the oil filter seat to clean the oil around there. I like to be comfortable, so even with the ramps which are higher than most plastic ramps, and additional almost 1/2" boards they sit on, I still would prefer more space. For example, a creeper doesn't really fit under there. I reach full comfort with these ramps only under my CR-V.

Swordfish said:

Changed the oil today without lifting the car. It was actually much harder than it seems. Very little space to work in

Click to expand...

how the hell did you do that????

marauderguy said:

Changing oil without raising the car seems very hard to me. I wouldn't do it. However driving up onto a set of ramps, it becomes a piece of cake. I spent too many years jacking up cars and using jack stands when I should have purchased ramps.

Click to expand...

I've tried ramps before. They are OK, but they have a tendency to slip and you have to be careful not to go over the edge. Plus you cannot rotate your tires with ramps.

Gruber said:

Harder than it seems? It seems practically impossible to me, so it can't be any harder than that. Just reaching the screws of the bottom cover must be hard, and then you can't see the oil filter seat to clean the oil around there. I like to be comfortable, so even with the ramps which are higher than most plastic ramps, and additional almost 1/2" boards they sit on, I still would prefer more space. For example, a creeper doesn't really fit under there. I reach full comfort with these ramps only under my CR-V.

Click to expand...

It's tight, but I just don't like the idea of getting under a car that's lifted. Being under the car with the wheels down reminds me of how you'd basically be crushed if it fell unless your car has 24" rims. Granted you can use jackstands or ramps, but since I can change the oil while on the ground, to me that's worth it to be safer. Ideally an underground pit would be better if I could use one. Ramps and jackstands may be "safe" but they will not ever be more safe than the car just literally sitting on the ground.

parshisa said:

how the hell did you do that????

Click to expand...

It's tight, and primarly my arms and slight upper torso do the work. The back screws I don't even look at, I just remove them by feel and take out the skid plate. The oil filter isn't an issue since it is up close. The drain bolt is difficult to get to and I just use one arm to do all the work. My head barely fits under the front bumper sideways, but I can see it and access it with my arms. I don't like the idea of being under a lifted car esp when I can avoid it which in this case I can barely. I have another car that has slightly more room, so it's not my first time doing work in a tight space.

Once the car is on the ramps it's as safe as if it was on the ground.
The most important point is that working under a car on ramps is many times safer than driving that car.

58K miles on the car now and another UOA, this one of Amazon Basics 0W20 run for 10,685 miles (Maintenance Minder showing 821 miles past due).

The fuel dilution % wasn't too high this time, but this oil was run from end of February to middle of October, so very little driving in cold temperatures. I'm guessing that's why. The other test where it wasn't wasn't too high was from when I bought the car in March 2016 until I changed the oil that October. This time I'd only filled the oil to the halfway mark on the stick so I could tell if the oil level went up, but I didn't see much change at all. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it this winter though.

Since my metal levels keep coming back fine, I'm not too worried.

josby said:

58K miles on the car now and another UOA, this one of Amazon Basics 0W20 run for 10,685 miles (Maintenance Minder showing 821 miles past due).

The fuel dilution % wasn't too high this time, but this oil was run from end of February to middle of October, so very little driving in cold temperatures. I'm guessing that's why. The other test where it wasn't wasn't too high was from when I bought the car in March 2016 until I changed the oil that October. This time I'd only filled the oil to the halfway mark on the stick so I could tell if the oil level went up, but I didn't see much change at all. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it this winter though.

Since my metal levels keep coming back fine, I'm not too worried.

Click to expand...

I've added this sample to the database. If you're not aware of it, we have a thread dedicated to collecting oil analysis data.
https://www.civicx.com/threads/oil-analysis-database.21607/#post-364703

I'm really surprised at the viscosity of your sample. We've seen Mobil 1 samples come back with lower viscosity after less mileage. I'd be very curious to see a sample of that oil new to see if it actually is a 0w20. One question, do you drive mainly expressway?

josby said:

58K miles on the car now and another UOA, this one of Amazon Basics 0W20 run for 10,685 miles (Maintenance Minder showing 821 miles past due).

The fuel dilution % wasn't too high this time, but this oil was run from end of February to middle of October, so very little driving in cold temperatures. I'm guessing that's why. The other test where it wasn't wasn't too high was from when I bought the car in March 2016 until I changed the oil that October. This time I'd only filled the oil to the halfway mark on the stick so I could tell if the oil level went up, but I didn't see much change at all. I'm definitely going to keep an eye on it this winter though.

Since my metal levels keep coming back fine, I'm not too worried.

Click to expand...

This is very interesting that you had little oil dilution when filled below the mark. I observed the same thing - no oil dilution when filled just a couple mm under. I wonder if there is a mechanical explanation for this that probably only someone who knows the engine very well could confirm. Like, for example, slower evaporation of fuel because of a smaller exposed surface area of oil when full or other ways of impairing the evaporation when full or overfilled. I have the impression that the higher the level of oil, the more accelerated further dilution. In other words, once it's a bit over, it will keep creeping up faster and faster.