Knock Count?

Yoroen · Apr 10, 2019

D-RobIMW said:
I recommend having your car's injectors inspected.

just recently found my pcv hose had a huge rip in it. L trim showed running rich by about -17%. replace the hose with a new one. gonna see how it effects knock and fuel

Green82 · Apr 13, 2019

Yoroen said:
just recently found my pcv hose had a huge rip in it. L trim showed running rich by about -17%. replace the hose with a new one. gonna see how it effects knock and fuel

where was that hose located? last few weeks i have seen my knock control rise more than normal. used to stay around .49 and rise a little on WOT but lately i can barely give it gas and watch it climb to .6+ and get on it hard and see it jump .8+

Yoroen · Apr 15, 2019

Green82 said:
where was that hose located? last few weeks i have seen my knock control rise more than normal. used to stay around .49 and rise a little on WOT but lately i can barely give it gas and watch it climb to .6+ and get on it hard and see it jump .8+

on WOT ive seen control go to around .55 ish.
the hose that im referring too is the crankcase vent hose from the valve cover to the intake manifold. im at work so i cant get to my car to take pics. but since ive replaced the hose, cleaned the air filter and cleaned the maf sensor, ive seen my Ltrim average around the -12.5%. however knock count on cyl 3 always seems to jump high and cyl 1,2,4 remain 0. control remains about the same. still looking for solutions or reasoning why cyl 3 is the only one that gets count

D-RobIMW · Apr 22, 2019

Yoroen said:
however knock count on cyl 3 always seems to jump high and cyl 1,2,4 remain 0. control remains about the same. still looking for solutions or reasoning why cyl 3 is the only one that gets count

Refer to my last comment in here, once more.

Yoroen · Apr 22, 2019

D-RobIMW said:
Refer to my last comment in here, once more.

when checking these injectors, i was informed that the seals and rail had a one time use and they should be replaced if i ever take them apart. i was wanting to move over the injectors and see if knock count moves with them. but have you or anyone else had experience removing these injectors and reuse the same parts?

Benster · Apr 26, 2019

don't risk it, there is a good chance the O-ring will be ripped or have a small tear and then there is very high pressure fuel spraying in your engine bay, not a good thing for a few dollars

brandonckc · Sep 19, 2019

Yoroen said:
when checking these injectors, i was informed that the seals and rail had a one time use and they should be replaced if i ever take them apart. i was wanting to move over the injectors and see if knock count moves with them. but have you or anyone else had experience removing these injectors and reuse the same parts?

Any update on the injectors and knock count? I have a 2016 base civic 1.5T CVT and a custom hondata tuned by local tuner, with 21psi max boost. I also have the same issue like you mentioned above, with cylinder 3 knock count the highst. I've read multiple thread in this forum, that we should ignore the knock count and focus only on the knock control.
But the knock count i've encounted still bothering me. Especially recently i get 33 of counts in 40minutes highway cruising, mostly in cylinder 2 and 3 the highest, with rev below 2000rpm.

zaidred · Oct 18, 2019

Crab said:
Has anyone ever explained WHERE the k.con number comes from? As a technical person, I find knowing where data is coming from helps me understand the data better.

Yea I was wondering the same thing. What does the value mean? Is it a ratio of some sort? (given that its usually < 0) and where does it come from/how's it derived?

PowerPerLiter · Oct 18, 2019

zaidred said:
Yea I was wondering the same thing. What does the value mean? Is it a ratio of some sort? (given that its usually < 0) and where does it come from/how's it derived?

Per D-Rob:

"Knock Count" = This parameter is a reflection of the ECU's misfire monitor. It is NOT an accurate reflection of anything other than misfire events. When will you see these normally? Startup, rapid throttle closures, rapid throttle inputs, rapid release of the clutch pedal, and sometimes at idle (especially if you have a lighter flywheel/clutch combo, and/or plugs that have been gapped down to prevent spark blowout at high load). A completely stock car, operating perfectly will still accumulate these counts. In my experience with these engines, you will see more activity on cylinder four compared to others, as the crank position sensor is physically located closest to there on the block. This usually isn't a concern area unless you see a steep count in a very, very short time (like 50+ in a few seconds), which will likely trip a P0300-variant DTC code.

"Knock Control" = This parameter is the ECU's determination of fuel quality. Movement here indicates the knock sensor hears what it thinks is knock activity, and reports to the ECU to apply a steeper ignition retard to avoid continued knock activity. This value is dynamic, and WILL move from time to time. On Civic Si models, there doesn't seem to be a forced rise at play at WOT like the non-Si 1.5T ECU's (which naturally rise above 5,200-5,400rpm regardless of sensor input). Movement that goes up and up and up and never comes down is more concerning than movement alone. Knock control can typically be manipulated down by driving the car in a higher gear at lower engine speeds and targeting atmospheric pressure on the MAP sensor reading."

zaidred · Oct 18, 2019

PowerPerLiter said:
Per D-Rob:

"Knock Count" = This parameter is a reflection of the ECU's misfire monitor. It is NOT an accurate reflection of anything other than misfire events. When will you see these normally? Startup, rapid throttle closures, rapid throttle inputs, rapid release of the clutch pedal, and sometimes at idle (especially if you have a lighter flywheel/clutch combo, and/or plugs that have been gapped down to prevent spark blowout at high load). A completely stock car, operating perfectly will still accumulate these counts. In my experience with these engines, you will see more activity on cylinder four compared to others, as the crank position sensor is physically located closest to there on the block. This usually isn't a concern area unless you see a steep count in a very, very short time (like 50+ in a few seconds), which will likely trip a P0300-variant DTC code.

"Knock Control" = This parameter is the ECU's determination of fuel quality. Movement here indicates the knock sensor hears what it thinks is knock activity, and reports to the ECU to apply a steeper ignition retard to avoid continued knock activity. This value is dynamic, and WILL move from time to time. On Civic Si models, there doesn't seem to be a forced rise at play at WOT like the non-Si 1.5T ECU's (which naturally rise above 5,200-5,400rpm regardless of sensor input). Movement that goes up and up and up and never comes down is more concerning than movement alone. Knock control can typically be manipulated down by driving the car in a higher gear at lower engine speeds and targeting atmospheric pressure on the MAP sensor reading."

right. I read that earlier. What I meant to ask was what does the number itself signify? For ex.what does 0.49 or 0.59 mean? is it the actual time in milliseconds that the engine is retarding the ignition? or is it some fuel quality measure against a "perfect" ideal high-octane fuel which has a theoretical value of 0 (i.e. no knock ever? just as a stupid example)

D-RobIMW · Oct 18, 2019

zaidred said:
Yea I was wondering the same thing. What does the value mean? Is it a ratio of some sort? (given that its usually < 0) and where does it come from/how's it derived?

It's a percentage that the ECU then uses to calculate actual ignition retard in degrees from a few "knock retard" tables.

Turboroe · Oct 18, 2019

PowerPerLiter said:
Per D-Rob:

"Knock Count" = This parameter is a reflection of the ECU's misfire monitor. It is NOT an accurate reflection of anything other than misfire events. When will you see these normally? Startup, rapid throttle closures, rapid throttle inputs, rapid release of the clutch pedal, and sometimes at idle (especially if you have a lighter flywheel/clutch combo, and/or plugs that have been gapped down to prevent spark blowout at high load). A completely stock car, operating perfectly will still accumulate these counts. In my experience with these engines, you will see more activity on cylinder four compared to others, as the crank position sensor is physically located closest to there on the block. This usually isn't a concern area unless you see a steep count in a very, very short time (like 50+ in a few seconds), which will likely trip a P0300-variant DTC code.

"Knock Control" = This parameter is the ECU's determination of fuel quality. Movement here indicates the knock sensor hears what it thinks is knock activity, and reports to the ECU to apply a steeper ignition retard to avoid continued knock activity. This value is dynamic, and WILL move from time to time. On Civic Si models, there doesn't seem to be a forced rise at play at WOT like the non-Si 1.5T ECU's (which naturally rise above 5,200-5,400rpm regardless of sensor input). Movement that goes up and up and up and never comes down is more concerning than movement alone. Knock control can typically be manipulated down by driving the car in a higher gear at lower engine speeds and targeting atmospheric pressure on the MAP sensor reading."

That is not what I have noticed on my 1.5T CVT.

I usually get veery little knock count with engine cold and starts having some counts when engine starts to get heat soaked. In especially hot days like 35C I get a very high count, then next day it rains and temperature drops 15C and get almost no count.
And if u flash a more aggressive calibration (say from +3 to +6) I notice a higher knock count.

My daily commute is 40 to 50 minutes and I have been datalogging and analysing for about 1 month so you kind of get used to how things act.

I also did some logging with stock ecu and got no knock count (and also stock "no power" ).

This is specially noticeable when using regular gas.

I dunno, it might be misfires but to me there seems to be an apparent relation between the counters and knock-lilely situations

PowerPerLiter · Oct 18, 2019

I know buddy and I agree with you. I gave up trying to argue with the "herd" though.

PowerPerLiter · Oct 18, 2019

Like I said in another thread my car has registered no more than 10 knock counts since I got it and ive monitored constantly with a literal shit ton of reflashes.

Every other turbo car land ive been in has a knock strategy "similar" to these and NONE in those worlds treat the counts like we do.

D-RobIMW · Oct 19, 2019

You can believe what you want to believe.

Knock Count?

Yoroen

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