The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

Lust · Oct 8, 2019

zeppelin2 said:
I measured my Clutch Pedal Free Play to be ~12mm which is about the middle of the range of 4.32–17.63mm (Step 9b). Didn't remove the clutch pedal assembly to get the exact measurement of the CMC push rod (Step 11). Not sure how to remove it or if this even something I should be doing myself?

Can you confirm that your document is for the FK8 Type R?

I understand you're a proponent of making this adjustment. I'm just approaching it from the angle that until I know that my clutch adjustment is out of spec, I prefer not to mess with this sort of thing. For one, I don't like the idea of a higher engagement point when I'm bringing up the clutch. If anything, I wish the clutch pedal stroke was shorter and engaged closer to the floor.

And I still don't fully subscribe to the idea that my grinds are because of a user/clutch timing issue. If all this adjustment is doing is disengaging the clutch sooner, then those times where I know the clutch has hit the floor and I add an extra pause before shifting, I'd expect to at least be getting consistently smoother shifts. But I don't. How and where I position my hand on the shift knob even greatly affect the smoothness of the shifts. And I can't get second gear to grind when I purposely shift fast. It's all so puzzling.

That said, as long as I'm able to mark the original position of the rod and get back to how things are currently, I'm open to trying it. I admit that I won't know if things change for the better until I give it a try. You mention moving the CSC by hand to ensure that the CMC rod hasn't been over-tightened. Do you have a photo of where I can find it? Does it need to be accessed from under the car?

You’ll need to watch Jacks video as to why we are adjusting the clutch pedal. The factory specs aren’t ideal in this case. Honda has been known to release bad torque specs on certain parts. This isn’t any different. When you make the clutch grab point closer to the floor, you create less throw out bearing travel which can create clutch drag. This is where the clutch feels like it disengaged but it didn’t do it fully.

By increasing pedal stroke and preload, we are maximizing overall fluid travel which will make sure the throw out bearing travel far enough to fully disengage the clutch quickly.

The CSC can be accessed from the engine compartment or from the bottom. You might need to remove the intake.

At the end of the day, by doing this adjustment, you will increase the life of your clutch and synchros when done properly

ez12a · Oct 8, 2019

an alternative afaik if people are paranoid about adjusting the rod by itself, is lengthening the rod by adjusting the clutch stop when it's fully released.

In theory, if you back out the stop so the pedal is higher at rest, and lengthen the rod as mentioned previously, you could technically maintain the same amount of freeplay while increasing the stroke when the pedal is pushed in.

Acurately · Oct 8, 2019

So I got the measurements from honda website https://techinfo.honda.com. That website was a mess to look through, just gotta go through each section and see what applies to your car. If something is specific to Type R, it says so and has a separate manual for it. The CMC measurements didn't have a specification for which type of Civic it was, so I assume they are all the same, I saved it and moved on.

Now looking at it, there are two part numbers for CMC's. Type R's(46925-TEA-A21) and for other Civic's (46925-TBA-A02)
I'm not sure if they are the same or what's the difference.

I did adjust my clutch pedal like a year ago, I only removed that first couple of mm's of freeplay the clutch pedal had, I didn't back out the clutch stop and gave it even more stroke (at least not yet) I did measure my CMC rod length ant its within the spec from the manual (~3.114)

I also have Slave cylinder Delay valve removed and Amsoil MTF. The car doesn't grind any gears, but for the first couple of miles when starting car in morning it's a bit notchy and cruncy going into 2nd. When everything is warmed up the transmission performs good and smooth.

I'm thinking about backing out a clutch stop a tiny bit and readjusting the clutch pedal to see if it makes things better or not, will report when I do.

Jpierro79 · Oct 12, 2019

I never did delay valve I fixed mine with shifter bushings Shift selector and different trans fluid.
Honestly fluid made a huge difference for me. I used torco racing rtf with .5qts Lucas trans with 2 ounces liquimoly ceratec like a friction modifier to rebalance the Synchro friction.

Lust · Oct 13, 2019

Made a quick video on checking your clutch slave cylinder after doing the clutch pedal adjustment

zeppelin2 · Oct 14, 2019

Lust said:
Made a quick video on checking your clutch slave cylinder after doing the clutch pedal adjustment

Thanks for the video Lust.

I adjusted my CMC rod and verified that I can still compress the CSC rubber piece with my hand.

I was able to go a whole turn past the point of resistance on the CMC rod before I was no longer able to compress the CSC rubber. Why do some people say to stop just before the point where you hit resistance in the CMC rod and others (like in the Jack's Transmissions video you posted) say to stop just before you can no longer compress the CSC rubber?

Lust · Oct 14, 2019

zeppelin2 said:
Thanks for the video Lust.

I adjusted my CMC rod and verified that I can still compress the CSC rubber piece with my hand.

I was able to go a whole turn past the point of resistance on the CMC rod before I was no longer able to compress the CSC rubber. Why do some people say to stop just before the point where you hit resistance in the CMC rod and others (like in the Jack's Transmissions video you posted) say to stop just before you can no longer compress the CSC rubber?

the jacks method is correct for getting as much fluid pass through as possible. People only say stop before resistance cause it makes them feel comfortable and not because they know for a fact that it’s adjusted properly

Zeffy94 · Oct 18, 2019

I dunno if this is placebo effect or not but, I have started to get smoother shifting into 2nd by doing one thing different. When I shift from first gear, I am now pulling the lever slightly towards me so that I am no longer just pulling straight down. Doing this is yielding less crunchiness, however it does not relieve it entirely. The motion I’m doing is basically cusping the top right of the knob and caressing it towards me while pulling down. It seems to like this better than just pulling straight down. Could that indicate the gears are too close together and when you shift into 2nd you might not be directly in the center of the gate?

Hayabusa160 · Oct 18, 2019

possible 3rd gear feels nasty sometimes and some days its super smooth i think its positional on how you shift lol

TheSnakeJake · Oct 18, 2019

Zeffy94 said:
I dunno if this is placebo effect or not but, I have started to get smoother shifting into 2nd by doing one thing different. When I shift from first gear, I am now pulling the lever slightly towards me so that I am no longer just pulling straight down. Doing this is yielding less crunchiness, however it does not relieve it entirely. The motion I’m doing is basically cusping the top right of the knob and caressing it towards me while pulling down. It seems to like this better than just pulling straight down. Could that indicate the gears are too close together and when you shift into 2nd you might not be directly in the center of the gate?

i have the same experience shifting into 2nd (both upshifting and downshifting). i have to pull the shifter to the left while pulling down or it is crunchy...

Lust · Oct 18, 2019

hpbyhermann · Nov 2, 2019

hpbyhermann said:
Over 2 more weeks since my last update. Still 100% free of ANY grinding.....this was absolutely the solution for my car. This is an easy adjustment for anyone who can pick up a wrench and watch the video! Get out there and do this......it is FREE.

UPDATE: Almost 3-1/2 months later since my last update and now over 6,000 miles on my car and I haven't had ONE grind since the adjusting the CMC. ZERO GRINDS! I have improved the feel of the shifting though by changing the transmission oil out to GM Syncromesh with a half bottle of Ford friction modifier. Also added Acuity shifter bushings that are just icing on the cake. In conjunction with the Raceng Slammer knob I don't think it could be any better than it is. Absolute perfection now!!

EnjoyDriving · Nov 2, 2019

hpbyhermann said:
UPDATE: Almost 3-1/2 months later since my last update and now over 6,000 miles on my car and I haven't had ONE grind since the adjusting the CMC. ZERO GRINDS! I have improved the feel of the shifting though by changing the transmission oil out to GM Syncromesh with a half bottle of Ford friction modifier. Also added Acuity shifter bushings that are just icing on the cake. In conjunction with the Raceng Slammer knob I don't think it could be any better than it is. Absolute perfection now!!

In your case, u only adjusted the rod but didn't get the modded CMC like @Lust did, right?

hpbyhermann · Nov 2, 2019

EnjoyDriving said:
In your case, u only adjusted the rod but didn't get the modded CMC like @Lust did, right?

That is correct. 100% happy with the results.

zeppelin2 · Nov 6, 2019

Two things.

1. It was easy to miss but in Motor Trend's "Honda Civic Type R vs. Civic Si" article (link), it says the following:

The Civic Si's shifter feels nice—until it's compared to the CTR's. Aside from sporadic grinding (due to our long-termer's age and hard life), it works like a manual shifter should: firm action, precise movement, and tight in the gates.

They don't go into more detail than that, but it's the first reference I've seen in professional reviews about the grinds. If the Si they tested was new, then their long-term Type R had ~16K miles on it at the time of writing.

2. Has anyone who's adjusted their CMC rod to reduce clutch pedal free-play found that idle coasting in first gear causes more lurching than before the adjustment? The car was much more jerky the last few times I've hit stop-and-go traffic and I wonder if it has anything to do with the adjustment.

The Infamous 2nd Gear Crunch

Lust

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ez12a

Senior Member

Acurately

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Jpierro79

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Lust

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zeppelin2

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Lust

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Zeffy94

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Hayabusa160

The Master

TheSnakeJake

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Lust

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hpbyhermann

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EnjoyDriving

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hpbyhermann

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zeppelin2

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