First Gear Question

COOL COUPE · Oct 6, 2019

I have sort of figured out how to make the best of it. I am 53 so my reaction time is not as it was while in my 20 s ... I pull my foot off the gas as quickly as is possible to minimize the rev hang issue. I push the clutch down all the way to the plastic of the weather tech plastic on the floor mat to take up more time to account for rev hang. I shift from first to neutral and then to second to ... add time and account for the rev hang. It's a cool double clutch baseball A rod move ... Lastly and most importantly I have noticed that you must wine out the gears on the high side to allow the sync mesh to match up properly! Do NOT short shift the Si! Does this sound like a bit much ... Yeah it does! It takes an incredible amount of finnesse' to shift this car!!!!!!

EdwinDrn · Oct 6, 2019

repeet said:
In 2017 I traded in a 2009 Mazda 6 that I had bought new. It had 223,000 miles on the original clutch. Yes it badly needed a clutch. I realized that once I hit 200,000, miles that I wasn't going to spend two grand on a car that I always had mixed feelings about. So I drove it until the new SIs came out, and the clutch only disengaged as you pushed it into the carpet. The Honda dealership I traded it into wasn't amused.

I have only owned "standard" transmission cars since I started driving in 1972.

The fact that Honda has added "helpers" (obstacles) to being able to clutch properly is just another nail in the coffin of the manual transmission. Between the "dual mass flywheel" and the "clutch delay valve" I can see why new "standard" drivers are having such a hard time. Add to that that the factory Rear Motor Mount allows the engine to "squirm and wiggle" at the engagement point of the clutch, just adds to the unnatural feel.

Engaging a clutch is a balancing act between launching and stalling. The closer you get to the center point, the more "natural" the transition feels.

New drivers will always error in the direction of a launch, in order to avoid stalling. The Civic's "designed in" quality of hiding where that balance point is, or worse allowing that balance point to shift as your engaging the clutch with three separate moving points, only makes learning the process close to impossible,

After 47 years of driving cars with a manual transmission, I find the CivicX to be the most aggravating vehicle to try to "clutch" in.

You "new guys" have my sympathy. There's a lot of good advice here. Unfortunately there is no substitute for practice and developing your own sense of "feel". And the CivicX makes that practice three times as hard.

Well, that makes me feel better LOL

EdwinDrn · Oct 6, 2019

COOL COUPE said:
IDo NOT short shift the Si! Does this sound like a bit much ... Yeah it does! It takes an incredible amount of finnesse' to shift this car!!!!!!

I did notice this as well, it upsets the balance a ton!

SI_honda_2k17 · Oct 6, 2019

repeet said:
In 2017 I traded in a 2009 Mazda 6 that I had bought new. It had 223,000 miles on the original clutch. Yes it badly needed a clutch. I realized that once I hit 200,000, miles that I wasn't going to spend two grand on a car that I always had mixed feelings about. So I drove it until the new SIs came out, and the clutch only disengaged as you pushed it into the carpet. The Honda dealership I traded it into wasn't amused.

I have only owned "standard" transmission cars since I started driving in 1972.

The fact that Honda has added "helpers" (obstacles) to being able to clutch properly is just another nail in the coffin of the manual transmission. Between the "dual mass flywheel" and the "clutch delay valve" I can see why new "standard" drivers are having such a hard time. Add to that that the factory Rear Motor Mount allows the engine to "squirm and wiggle" at the engagement point of the clutch, just adds to the unnatural feel.

Engaging a clutch is a balancing act between launching and stalling. The closer you get to the center point, the more "natural" the transition feels.

New drivers will always error in the direction of a launch, in order to avoid stalling. The Civic's "designed in" quality of hiding where that balance point is, or worse allowing that balance point to shift as your engaging the clutch with three separate moving points, only makes learning the process close to impossible,

After 47 years of driving cars with a manual transmission, I find the CivicX to be the most aggravating vehicle to try to "clutch" in.

You "new guys" have my sympathy. There's a lot of good advice here. Unfortunately there is no substitute for practice and developing your own sense of "feel". And the CivicX makes that practice three times as hard.

agree with you
I always drove manual in my life
The X gen SI is the most difficult car to drive stick smoothly.
Even after 2 years of driving the car, i find myself doing beginner clutch in from time to time

Micah · Oct 6, 2019

I shift smooth as glass. Shift at 2k and each follows at 1.5k. excellent fuel economy. 6th is the exception, it has a smaller drop.

Gotch · Oct 6, 2019

I have zero issues as well shifting smoothly, whether putting around or full throttle no lift shift.

Cornercarver · Oct 7, 2019

Ditto, have driven manual cars for decades, and it takes a bit more focus to smoothly catch the first gear shift on the SI.

The other gears, not so much.

The shift mechanism is sensational, and Honda has installed a light clutch, but the take-up is too long and catch point too hard to feel.

That said, six seconds is about 4 seconds too long for a first gear shift.

And I have never had to replace a clutch on any manual car I have owned. So yes, treated well they will last a long, long time in a stock setup.

EdwinDrn · Oct 7, 2019

Cornercarver said:
Ditto, have driven manual cars for decades, and it takes a bit more focus to smoothly catch the first gear shift on the SI.

The other gears, not so much.

The shift mechanism is sensational, and Honda has installed a light clutch, but the take-up is too long and catch point too hard to feel.

That said, six seconds is about 4 seconds too long for a first gear shift.

And I have never had to replace a clutch on any manual car I have owned. So yes, treated well they will last a long, long time in a stock setup.

Thank you for your feedback. I am definitely working on minimizing my time on the clutch. I dont think ill do any power mods (for now), so I expect to run this thing for a long time.

Edwin,

REBELXSi · Oct 7, 2019

Anything more than 2 seconds is nuts.

EdwinDrn · Oct 7, 2019

REBELXSi said:
Anything more than 2 seconds is nuts.

I can see that, I minimized my time on the clutch today.. Much better results.

SDAlexander8 · Oct 8, 2019

Jayceegee said:
Agreed. I have been driving manual transmission since 1965 and this Si seems near impossible for me to shift smoothly, especially from 1st to 2nd.

This is my first manual ive owned and it is difficult to get in it every day and have the same consistent experience.

- you cannot feel the engagement point
-sometimes I think the pedal is all the way out and i dump it with 2 inches left and get a lurch
- i adjust my seating position at all, it feels completely different
-if it’s cold the clutch is extra grabby til it warms up
-some days i’ll be shifting like a pro, other days i’ll look like a complete idiot
-on a hot day the load from the A/C makes the revs drop faster and i’ll miss the timing on the shift and it will bounce a bit

It’s frustrating but I still have a blast driving the car

Neddih · Oct 8, 2019

SDAlexander8 said:
This is my first manual ive owned and it is difficult to get in it every day and have the same consistent experience.

- you cannot feel the engagement point
-sometimes I think the pedal is all the way out and i dump it with 2 inches left and get a lurch
- i adjust my seating position at all, it feels completely different
-if it’s cold the clutch is extra grabby til it warms up
-some days i’ll be shifting like a pro, other days i’ll look like a complete idiot
-on a hot day the load from the A/C makes the revs drop faster and i’ll miss the timing on the shift and it will bounce a bit

It’s frustrating but I still have a blast driving the car

Pretty much describes my experience so far, when its good its great, when its being moody I feel like a fool. Definitely interesting clutch dynamics to come back to after not owning a manual for
a good period of time.

SDAlexander8 · Oct 8, 2019

Neddih said:
Pretty much describes my experience so far, when its good its great, when its being moody I feel like a fool. Definitely interesting clutch dynamics to come back to after not owning a manual for
a good period of time.

I just hope i’m not spending a fortune on repairs and a new clutch in 4 years

SDAlexander8 · Oct 8, 2019

Mark11 said:
what the heck?

less then one second for me, and that is for a smooth takeoff....i have been driving stick for over 30 years,

6 seconds is rediculous

The car is supposed to have a 6.9 second 0-60 time? Lol. You got .9 seconds to get from 10-60

geeeek · Oct 8, 2019

Like others have said, even 2 seconds feels too long unless I mess up on a steep hill. I find that in most situations, letting off the clutch a bit right before the clutch engages gives the smoothest/quickest takeoff while minimizing slip time

Also I watched matt's video before I learned as well. I think ~6 seconds was more of a starting point and to let the viewer experience what is happening mechanically instead of just telling them "let off the clutch while simultaneously getting on the throttle". Which would lead to jerks/stalls if you didn't know what you were doing.

edit: meant clutch not thr

First Gear Question

COOL COUPE

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EdwinDrn

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EdwinDrn

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SI_honda_2k17

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Micah

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Gotch

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Cornercarver

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EdwinDrn

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REBELXSi

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EdwinDrn

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SDAlexander8

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Neddih

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geeeek

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