Moved back to stock 20" wheels. My thoughts

toddrhodes

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So I'm probably going to sell my Regamasters next year. At this point I'm just making sure I can live with the stock wheels, with a street/track Continental tire on them (they don't like 2nd gear acceleration grip on even moderately damp roads, but that's ok, I can work around that).

Anyway, I thought my experience might be helpful to others, so wanted to post about it.

Two setups - stock wheels with 255/35 Continental ContiForceContacts I got from Tire Rack. Other set consists of 18 x 9.5" Regamasters with 255/40 Michelin PS4S tires.

The car is, basically, completely different between the two setups.

With the Regas, the car is more frantic, but it really doesn't struggle for traction at all. It's light and nimble, but it can be a bit of a chore to just drive it normally as it really just kinda wants to let loose at any speed in any gear below 4th (Hondata with Derek R tune).

With the stock wheels, the R is more balanced and composed. It doesn't "feel" slower but it feels heavier. Steering weight is definitely heavier and more numb than with the light 18's.

I've not noticed much in the way of braking differences, in fact I prefer the feel of the brakes on the 20" wheels which is a bit surprising.

Turn-in is definitely a downgrade on the 20s. I would say maybe it'd be different if I had the stock sized 245/30s on it but with 255/35, the R doesn't feel as "point and shoot" as it does on the 18" setup. Could be the tire, but the Contis I have on it are very good tires, better than the stock tires at least in weather above 60*, so I don't think it's a tire issue.

I've had the 18" setup on track but have not, and doubt I'll put the 20" setup on a track at this point. Ultimately, it just depends on what you want out of the car, and you can "tune it" a bit with the wheel and tire choice. The stock wheels are obviously heavy so there are some easy observations just from that, but I've been surprised at how much I actually like the 20" wheel setup. But it's relative. It's a level of "like" that i can live with in the absence of a very light 18" wheel, I'm not saying I actually prefer the stock setup to the 18" wheel setup. It's just not as bad as I feared it might be. And with wanting to kind of settle the car down a little, it has helped move it in that direction.

I did not notice any noticeable reduction in torque steer between the two setups, since the 18's are +45 that I have.

Anyway, hope this helps anyone who may have been curious.

Todd
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RedGiant217

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Nice write up!

Since going to 18s (+40 offset and 255/40) I've felt like the steering is less direct, but it sounds like you feel the opposite. I'm guessing tire size and compound etc play into that.

As far as braking goes, the change in offset is probably the more significant factor than wheel diameter. Although wheel weight certainly plays a roll in the feel as well.
 
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toddrhodes

toddrhodes

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Nice write up!

Since going to 18s (+40 offset and 255/40) I've felt like the steering is less direct, but it sounds like you feel the opposite. I'm guessing tire size and compound etc play into that.

As far as braking goes, the change in offset is probably the more significant factor than wheel diameter. Although wheel weight certainly plays a roll in the feel as well.
At this point my plan is to wear down these Contis (got them for a steal, and they aren't a bad tire at all) and go back to PS4S which is just a great all-around tire for this, and many other, areas. But I do think that the Contis are playing into the steering feel equation. They have good grip but they do have to be pretty hot. So it's kinda like brake pads that aren't up to their operating temp, is my guess. They just kinda feel numb until they warm up. But even then, the car just doesn't seem to turn or respond as effortlessly as with the 18s.
 

fatherpain

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Thanks Todd for the detailed write up.

I’m still on stock 20’s. My only warning would be potholes.. I’ve bent (2) rims so far @20k miles.
Fortunately OEM rims and tires are plentiful in the SoCal aftermarket for reasonable prices.
 

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Thanks Todd for the detailed write up.

I’m still on stock 20’s. My only warning would be potholes.. I’ve bent (2) rims so far @20k miles.
Fortunately OEM rims and tires are plentiful in the SoCal aftermarket for reasonable prices.
4 rims in 21K miles :)
 


fatherpain

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Whoa... Thought I was bad.. you have me beat.

The routes I take are smooth, fast roads or freeways.

Didn’t pick up the wheel protection plan... but over here used rims+tires can be had for about $300 or less... so it doesn’t hurt that much.

Buying new from the dealer would be painful.

4 rims in 21K miles :)
 
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toddrhodes

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For what it's worth, I've had quite a few sets of wheels/tire sizes on this car. I'm happy to answer any questions about any of them:

20" OZ Ultraleggera HLTs (23 lbs) with 245/35 PS4S
18" Work Emotion CR Kai (22 lbs) with 255/35 Indy 500s
18" Regamasters (18 lbs) with 255/40 PS4S
Stock wheels (6000 lbs) with 255/35 ContiForceContacts

I literally only put 20 miles, the ride home from the dealer, on the stock wheel/tire, so I can't really say much about that setup.
 

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255/35 tires is not a very good comparison to stock. they are 1.2" taller than stock.
 
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toddrhodes

toddrhodes

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255/35 tires is not a very good comparison to stock. they are 1.2" taller than stock.
I guess it's a good thing I never made that comparison? My 18" wheel setup is taller than stock, also.
 

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For what it's worth, I've had quite a few sets of wheels/tire sizes on this car. I'm happy to answer any questions about any of them:

20" OZ Ultraleggera HLTs (23 lbs) with 245/35 PS4S
18" Work Emotion CR Kai (22 lbs) with 255/35 Indy 500s
18" Regamasters (18 lbs) with 255/40 PS4S
Stock wheels (6000 lbs) with 255/35 ContiForceContacts

I literally only put 20 miles, the ride home from the dealer, on the stock wheel/tire, so I can't really say much about that setup.
6000lbs :lol:
 


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Whoa... Thought I was bad.. you have me beat.

The routes I take are smooth, fast roads or freeways.

Didn’t pick up the wheel protection plan... but over here used rims+tires can be had for about $300 or less... so it doesn’t hurt that much.

Buying new from the dealer would be painful.
Unfortunately the roads I take are lined with potholes. Just a PA and NJ thing I have to cope with sadly.
 

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I guess it's a good thing I never made that comparison? My 18" wheel setup is taller than stock, also.
Well, you are saying the steering feels heavy and numb with the "stock wheels". But you are running a tire that is 1.2" taller than the car was designed for. Why would you even want to run such a tire, especially with 18" wheels?
 
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toddrhodes

toddrhodes

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Well, you are saying the steering feels heavy and numb with the "stock wheels".
Why the quote marks? They're stock wheels. Nowhere did I claim they were stock tires and in fact I was explicit they were not, and gave every detail about them. Anyone who understands how to read tire sizes knows they are taller. And the reason I have them is that I got them for an amazing deal, which I'm not going to post here because it was a friendly hookup, and I was hoping to use these tires on track. With wanting to sell my Regamasters eventually, I decided to just drive them on the street to see how they fared. I then took those observations and compared them to my Rega/18" setup, and here you have my original post.

But you are running a tire that is 1.2" taller than the car was designed for. Why would you even want to run such a tire, especially with 18" wheels?
See above for why. I have no idea where the last line about 18" wheels comes into play since everything before that deals with 20" wheels. The tires on the 18" Rega wheels are slightly taller than stock. That makes for slightly taller gearing. The tires on the stock 20 wheels are even a little taller, making for even a little taller gearing. And off-track, that's actually kind of nice to be doing 70 in 6th at less than 3000 RPM or whatever it works out to be.

Having had a 255/35-18 setup, it was far too short, it looked weird, and shortened gearing even more than factory. This car, to me, is best with a slightly taller gear ratio. Thus, I went with 255/40 for the 18" setup and it's frankly awesome. No loss of steering feel, agility, you have the gearing benefits I find attractive, and plenty of sidewall so the ride doesn't punish you in R mode over uneven pavement. Most go with a 265/35 tire, but long story short - I bought the 255/40s when I had 18 +38 wheels, and those would have rubbed if/when I lowered it. And at the end of the day, a 255/40-18 and a 255/35-20 aren't so far off that they're on different planets to compare against each other.

And since steering feel and turn-in seem to relate most heavily to sidewall stiffness and tire profile, camber, and contact patch - I felt it was a worthwhile comparison, since the one that should be better on paper is not in fact better to me.

And lastly - I would not do another 255/35/20 on this car. But tires are like haircuts. So long as it's not absolutely horrible (and this tire isn't horrible), just eat them up quick and get a new set. They're street/track tires anyway, they won't last that long.
 
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toddrhodes

toddrhodes

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*cough*so you gonna offer up a CSi discount for dem Regas?*cough*

:p
I could most certainly consider that :)

My wife wants me to keep the Regas. It's so weird. So I'm not 100% on selling them yet but I also want to do some work on the house and of things I truly don't need, but have, the Regas would actually let me take out most of those projects in one fell swoop :)

Or I could just save, but I'm lazy and impatient.
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