2017 SI stock with 61,000 mi Engine Failure!

charleswrivers · Sep 24, 2019

Can't keep a good horse down...

gtman · Sep 24, 2019

May as well add Mongo to the mix...

BlownSI · Sep 24, 2019

john21031 said:
OP, please use the spell checker at least. The word is WARRANTY from the word warrant. It's not warrEnty... or veronti or anything else like that.

Hello Sir,

As you know from our prior private conversations, I already know about my mispelling of the word since you brought it to my attention. Furthermore, your action of posting it on here is making it clear your intention is to embarrass me.

Unfortunately I do not care what you think. My spelling is not the best. I also make mistakes when I type on a phone.

So despite your self thought good intentions, your actions are smug. Stop messenging me and go do something better please.

Sincerely,

The dude who spellz wrung at timez

gtman · Sep 24, 2019

I agree with the OP. I mean, sure I noticed the misspelling but we're not here to chastise people about punctuation or spelling. Last I checked I don't think CivicX is handing out gold stars or grading members on their spelling bee potential.

Back to the horse punching and engine replacement chat.

Syntek · Sep 24, 2019

john21031 said:
OP, please use the spell checker at least. The word is WARRANTY from the word warrant. It's not warrEnty... or veronti or anything else like that.

Of course you're from Castaic.

OP, Sorry you're going through this again, and just might be shit luck unfortunately. Did your wife may have over-reved once on accident? It's a possibility that the failure was from that and finally caught up with you.

xbbnx · Sep 24, 2019

gtman said:
Back to the horse punching and engine replacement chat.

Lets stay on the horse punching as we've beat the other horse to death :yes:

captlwr · Sep 24, 2019

BlownSI said:
Hello,

So I purchased a 2017 Civic SI at the end of 2017 and have had no issues with it. Gets 35-38 average mpg and the engine was still as responsive as it was the day I purchased it. I have done zero modifications. No tunes and no performance parts or accessories. I dont race it. The most I do is the occasional speed up on the on ramp to the freeway. I have been up to date on my maintinance. It has 61,000 miles on it but I live in Tucson Arizona and I drive up to Phoenix Arizona alot to help my family. So most of my miles are highway miles.

Despite the smooth sailing, I was surprised out of the blue when my civic engine sputtered and shut down. This was also right after I did an oil change at the Honda dealer. Like an hour after. Towed it back to the dealer and they confirm the engine is shot. They have not yet explained why it failed, but claim it needs a new block, head, and other parts. Since I am just out of warrenty they are going to offer to replace the broken parts and labor and cover 90% of the cost. I am expected to pay $500 to $900.

Now this seems fair, except I have 2 complaints, and they are big ones:

1. The Honda reliablity has failed me. I come from humble beginnings and am a young professional in Engineering and needed a vehicle that would last at least 5 years, maybe 150,000 miles. I dont have a safety net of family to fall on and I am ready to start a family of my own. I have been let down by their engineering.

2. I doubt the future reliability of the 1.5L turbo engine, even after they fix it. The repiars come with a 30,000 mile warrenty, so I should be covered for a year or two, but what if it fails at 35,000 miles due to the same unkown issue?

So its a known fact now that this engine has issues in cold climates due to the direct injection which causes seeping of fuel past the pistons into the oil until the engine can warm up. Canada Honda for instance has extended the warrenty for 6 years to all new civic owners for this reason. I have also read that some owners in northern states in the US are also getting an extension on the warrenty. China wont even sell Hondas anymore.

Now Tucson/Phoenix are not cold climates, but it does get around 30 F in winter. I expressed my concerns about the engines reliability and the rep told me that my car is one of tens of thousands, we arent going to do a recall for one car. I asked if they would be willing to extend the warrenty and they told me I would have to go through Honda Customer Service.

Now I understand the practicallity on Hondas part to deal with the few premature engine failures that may happen, but this begs the following questions:

1. What is Honda doing to garentee their work for the few suckers who treat their Civic right and still have their engines blow?

2. How "few" of us are actually experiencing premature engine failures?

I know I racket up miles pretty quickly so I am not sure if other drivers are nearing the 60k warrenty, but if you are how confident are you that your civic will last you the next 60k. What about the 200k reputation Honda had? Is their reliability in the past?

What do you guys suggest I do?

Made in THAILAND not USA or Japan - Trans made in INDIA...........

Honda_RacerX · Sep 24, 2019

captlwr said:
Made in THAILAND not USA or Japan - Trans made in INDIA...........

No wonder why the trannys are made of glass.

James3spearchucker · Sep 26, 2019

BlownSI said:
Im not 100% sure who is, I think the dealer though. Though a Honda rep who I cant speak with is the one who made the decision.

Well it looks like I am too late to the party to do anyone any favors. But from having worked at a couple of dealerships in service and sales, I can first lament that dealerships hide information because they are just flawed human beings. At a Mazda dealership, the owner from Cyprus was so cheap that the parts truck's oil was never changed(Mazda B2000). After a few years the truck was sold. The motor blew. The dealership hid this fact from Mazda(big fat lie) and we managed to get Mazda to send us a new motor and it was replaced.

Now look at Honda's perspective: They don't know you or me and never will usually. So, the few people they do know like Hondapro Jason they love and treat well. But me? I'm nobody. So, Honda Motor will never develop a relationship to us and they are probably paranoid of owners out there beating on their cars. That leaves the dealership in a critical position to either be on our side or not and trust me, they do take sides either for themselves (when money is on the line) or just because they like or don't like you.

Bottom line: the dealership will NEVER admit their mistake with big money on the line. Sadly, it doesn't appear that Honda wants to look inside your motor but perhaps they will on their own time. They definitely won't voluntarily share their conclusions so the dealership- stealership offered to make money on your curiosity to take it apart and show it to you. But the 1000 is both a disincentive and the reality that a tech's 2 hours time to disassemble is worth something. But if not for covering Honda's ass it should only cost you 200. The technician will maybe get 35 bucks for it!

My conclusion is that the greedy scummy dealer is making money for their bottom line in replacing your engine. They are in the business to get greenbacks everyday. Honda has agreed to supply the engine. Honda despises paying labor for warranty work but if they did it would only be for five hours MAX. So like you concluded, you have bigger problems than the dealership and Honda's obsession with money. If you got a lawyer you would require ample troves of evidence to back a court case so yes they have you by the shift knob. If you had had the car checked by someone else and it showed an oil problem then you would have documented it but you didn't. You still have the remaining evidence and power on your side. You could threaten to hire an engineering firm to analyze the engine and hire a lawyer to take them to court. They encounter hard-asses every now and then. But most of us just comply.

Either way, take care. I'm sure you would like to get over this unfortunate hump of metal. I would too. It's really just a broken machine and family is what matters most!

thebutcher · Sep 27, 2019

Paying the $900 is a good idea. But you do actually own the engine that is coming out of the car. If at all possible, could you take the engine after it comes out and bring it to a private shop and have someone look at it? It might cost you a lot less than the grand their asking for. And I doubt they would do anything to cover up a mistake they made, that’s more time and money coming out of their pocket.

Dimitron84 · Sep 27, 2019

thebutcher said:
Paying the $900 is a good idea. But you do actually own the engine that is coming out of the car. If at all possible, could you take the engine after it comes out and bring it to a private shop and have someone look at it? It might cost you a lot less than the grand their asking for. And I doubt they would do anything to cover up a mistake they made, that’s more time and money coming out of their pocket.

If i had to guess they will venture to say they will need the old engine as like a core charge to rebuild it! Just guessing.

Jayceegee · Sep 27, 2019

Well, after reading what has been said I would say to take the car to the dealership - pay the money asked -- get the car fixed and go on with your life. It's rare that Samson beats Goliath.

Florence_NC · Oct 3, 2019

xbbnx said:
Let me ask you this..lets say you are a detective and you come across a case on your desk and here are the facts..a guy was shot dead on an alley way on his way back from a bar, 10 minutes before he was shot dead he had gotten into a physical altercation with a guy in that bar. Who would be the first suspect?

The man in question might be a suspect. But being a suspect is not the same thing as being guilty. Being a SUSPECT means that someone has reason to believe he has a higher likelihood of being GUILTY, but does not mean he is guilty. Apply this same logic to the engine situation here, and you have more or less, no you have EXACTLY what I already said.

My Quote;

The fact that this happened directly after an oil change makes it more likely that something at the oil change is the cause, but does not guarantee it.

Now If you don't get this, if you don't understand the definition and meaning of simple, common words in the English language like SUSPECT and GUILTY, then maybe you shouldn't use them until you do.

See, it is called common sense.

See, it is called applying common logic. The same logic applied by our judicial system to the murder suspect should be the logic you apply to this engine failure. You have information that increases the likelihood of the true cause being something at the oil change, but you lack actual hard evidence to prove it. THAT is using common sense.

I dont care if you had been around racing your whole life (which actually means nothing here),

So you have someone here with 4 plus decades of motorsports experience, someone with experience as a professional engine builder that has seen every failure mode of every possible engine part, personally disassembled damaged and examined failures due to lack of oil supply, oil film loss, fatigue, yielding, overheating, cyclic stress, and every other failure under the sun. And you think that person's knowledge and experience "means nothing here" with "here" being a discussion about an engine failure? That explains a lot about you.

So since my experience "means nothing around here" what is you experience? How many of the above engine failures have you personally observed, diagnosed, and analyzed after that fact? And when I say "personally" I don't mean watched a Youtube video, or had your buddy tell you a story about his neighbors' mom's uncle's cousin that once worked at an engine shop that had a guy that used to work there that did it once. I mean how many times have YOU done it with YOUR hands?

I don't really need you to answer the question, by the way, I already know the answer. But maybe after you answer the question to yourself, then you should go look up the Dunning-Kruger effect. I think it definitely applies here.

common sense is still common sense.

How poetic. Who wrote that, Neitzsche?

Now is there a small chance that the engine mishap was in no way related to the dealership work? Yes, but the chances that the dealership messed up that man's car is very likely.

So, in other words, you agree with me.

So now I am confused, what was the point of your post in the first place? You tell me I am not using common sense, then tell me that my experience means nothing, THEN AGREE WITH ME? Priceless.

As others have stated, what business would agree to cover 90% of cost for something they had no part of? Why all the secrecy with releasing information to the owner? Why did it happen right after the oil change? If it was in no fault of their own, as the OP has hinted to them that it was, dont you think they would have been bending over backwards to show him whatever evidence they have to prove their innocence?

A whole bunch of this has never made sense. The OP was first driving his car when it broke, then it was his wife driving the car, then he wasn't in the country when it broke, then it wasn't actually him making some of the posts. Then the car wouldn't crank. "Crank" by the way means that the starter is turning over the engine, but in fact I think what was meant that the engine wouldn't "run". Until we found out that it will actually run, but sounds really bad.

So why is Honda/dealership not being forthcoming? I don't know, maybe they are and we aren't getting the whole story. Or maybe they have a known manufacturing problem and they are replacing this engine to cover their ass. Or maybe someone at Honda has the authority to do a certain number of "good deeds", and on this particular day that person felt sorry and gave the OP an engine. I can keep going on plausible but unlikely possibilities, but I don't see the point. Use your imagination, if you have one, to keep adding to this list.

Just because plausible possibilities are unlikely does not make them impossible. Kind of like having a random component failure unrelated to the oil change is possible to happen right after an oil change. The two are not exclusively related.

Again, race car driver, common sense.

I never said I was a race car driver. Reading comprehension skills, you should try them some time.

herox · Oct 4, 2019

Florence_NC said:
...

A whole bunch of this has never made sense. The OP was first driving his car when it broke, then it was his wife driving the car, then he wasn't in the country when it broke, then it wasn't actually him making some of the posts. Then the car wouldn't crank. "Crank" by the way means that the starter is turning over the engine, but in fact I think what was meant that the engine wouldn't "run". Until we found out that it will actually run, but sounds really bad.

So why is Honda/dealership not being forthcoming? I don't know, maybe they are and we aren't getting the whole story. Or maybe they have a known manufacturing problem and they are replacing this engine to cover their ass.

...

This bothered me about the OP's posts.

amirza786 · Oct 4, 2019

Florence_NC said:
The man in question might be a suspect. But being a suspect is not the same thing as being guilty. Being a SUSPECT means that someone has reason to believe he has a higher likelihood of being GUILTY, but does not mean he is guilty. Apply this same logic to the engine situation here, and you have more or less, no you have EXACTLY what I already said.

My Quote;

The fact that this happened directly after an oil change makes it more likely that something at the oil change is the cause, but does not guarantee it.

Now If you don't get this, if you don't understand the definition and meaning of simple, common words in the English language like SUSPECT and GUILTY, then maybe you shouldn't use them until you do.

See, it is called applying common logic. The same logic applied by our judicial system to the murder suspect should be the logic you apply to this engine failure. You have information that increases the likelihood of the true cause being something at the oil change, but you lack actual hard evidence to prove it. THAT is using common sense.

So you have someone here with 4 plus decades of motorsports experience, someone with experience as a professional engine builder that has seen every failure mode of every possible engine part, personally disassembled damaged and examined failures due to lack of oil supply, oil film loss, fatigue, yielding, overheating, cyclic stress, and every other failure under the sun. And you think that person's knowledge and experience "means nothing here" with "here" being a discussion about an engine failure? That explains a lot about you.

So since my experience "means nothing around here" what is you experience? How many of the above engine failures have you personally observed, diagnosed, and analyzed after that fact? And when I say "personally" I don't mean watched a Youtube video, or had your buddy tell you a story about his neighbors' mom's uncle's cousin that once worked at an engine shop that had a guy that used to work there that did it once. I mean how many times have YOU done it with YOUR hands?

I don't really need you to answer the question, by the way, I already know the answer. But maybe after you answer the question to yourself, then you should go look up the Dunning-Kruger effect. I think it definitely applies here.

How poetic. Who wrote that, Neitzsche?

So, in other words, you agree with me.

So now I am confused, what was the point of your post in the first place? You tell me I am not using common sense, then tell me that my experience means nothing, THEN AGREE WITH ME? Priceless.

A whole bunch of this has never made sense. The OP was first driving his car when it broke, then it was his wife driving the car, then he wasn't in the country when it broke, then it wasn't actually him making some of the posts. Then the car wouldn't crank. "Crank" by the way means that the starter is turning over the engine, but in fact I think what was meant that the engine wouldn't "run". Until we found out that it will actually run, but sounds really bad.

So why is Honda/dealership not being forthcoming? I don't know, maybe they are and we aren't getting the whole story. Or maybe they have a known manufacturing problem and they are replacing this engine to cover their ass. Or maybe someone at Honda has the authority to do a certain number of "good deeds", and on this particular day that person felt sorry and gave the OP an engine. I can keep going on plausible but unlikely possibilities, but I don't see the point. Use your imagination, if you have one, to keep adding to this list.

Just because plausible possibilities are unlikely does not make them impossible. Kind of like having a random component failure unrelated to the oil change is possible to happen right after an oil change. The two are not exclusively related.

I never said I was a race car driver. Reading comprehension skills, you should try them some time.

Fight!

2017 SI stock with 61,000 mi Engine Failure!

Should I simply accept their offer to cover cost at 90% with 30K warrenty?

Yes, its the best you can do

No, fight for better offer for peace of mind

charleswrivers

Senior Member

gtman

Senior Member

BlownSI

Senior Member

gtman

Senior Member

Syntek

Senior Member

xbbnx

Senior Member

captlwr

Senior Member

Honda_RacerX

James3spearchucker

Senior Member

thebutcher

NSFW

Dimitron84

Senior Member

Jayceegee

Senior Member

Florence_NC

Senior Member

herox

Senior Member

amirza786

Senior Member

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