NEW AC CONDENSER LEAKING TSB 19-091

frontlinegeek

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I talked to the service advisor for a bit and he said he doesn't know why Honda is only covering the condenser because he hasn't seen any civics with condenser problems, only compressor problems.
Ya, see what is weird is most of the indications are that it is the other way around except for those that had to have an AC compressor replaced because of the oil dilution issues before they came out with the software fix. I had to wait for the condenser when the dealer here replaced it under warranty. The new suction hose they also replaced arrived faster and it was a whole new part #.
 

LJF1982

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I purchased my 2016 Civic EX-L in July 2016. I began hearing a hissing sound in November or December of 2018 whenever I turned on the heat in the car. Didn't think much of it. It became more pronounced over the months. In April, I took the car to the dealership - twice – for technicians to perform diagnostic tests. Following the second visit, which occurred on April 10, the service manager informed me that the car needed a new air conditioning compressor because the seals on the existing compressor had failed. I was quoted $1,431.25 to replace the compressor. This quote included the part itself, labor, and the evacuation and recharge of the coolant.

At the time, my car had more than 39,000 miles on it - beyond the 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty. And this meant I was responsible for paying for the compressor out-of-pocket. I chose to write a compelling letter/email to Honda about the situation. I referenced all of the issues documented in forums (like CivicX.com), videos and pages on the Internet. And I tried to be balanced and fair in my account. It took some time for Honda to review my situation and communicate with the service department at the dealer. In the end, Honda agreed to pay 90% of the cost for the compressor replacement work.

The compressor was replaced on July 2, 2019. My service manager told me that the technician added a dye to the R1234YF refrigerant. That way they could easily diagnose any issues in the future. The dye is referenced on the invoice.

Fast-forward about 6 weeks. I started hearing the same hissing noises whenever I turned on the A/C. Over time, the A/C started blowing warm air on hot days. I took the car back to the dealership yesterday. They said the new compressor – especially the seals – look good. They determined the condenser needed to be replaced due to the issue already discussed in this thread. Luckily it will be fully covered by Honda.

Not surprisingly, the condenser is on backorder. Once it comes in, the technician will need to install it and recharge the system with R1234YF. I’m going to make sure they add the dye to the refrigerant so future issues will (hopefully) be easier to detect.

For those of you with suspected compressor issues, my advice is to take your car to the dealer ASAP. If you need a new compressor and are out of warranty, I recommend that you initially write a letter/email to Honda instead of calling. That way you can document your entire situation and clearly explain it. Also, the details of your story are a lot less likely to get lost as your case is passed from person to person. Just my two cents.
 

jakdotdot

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I took mine in the other day. They couldn't see a leak so they refilled and added dye. I'll have to bring it back a few weeks and have them check for leaks again.
 

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I have a 2016 Touring sedan bought in Nov 2015. Car has been great except last September when on a road trip we noticed that the A/C wasn't blowing cold air. Took it to the dealer and they could not find a leak. They charged me $200 to recharge it and they put some dye in it and said to bring it back after 1000 miles. They also said if they find the leak they will refund the cost of the recharge. Brought it back after 1k miles and they could not find the leak, but it was still blowing cold air so they said to bring it back when it stops working. Couple weeks ago it stopped blowing cold air so I took it back to the dealer. Initially they said it was the condenser and that it would cost $600 because they found rock damage. I said show me, and while I saw some bent fins there wasn't really any damage that would cause a leak. I said if the rock damage was causing a leak, the dye should how where. The tech wasn't aware of the dye so he checked again with the UV light. He couldn't show any leak from rock damage, nor any leak at all. They recharged it for free so it's working again, but I am worried that this may become an annual event. I really hope Honda figures this out and proactively offers a fix.

BTW, thanks for uploading that picture of the rock damage inspection instructions. When I pulled that out to compare they changed their tune. I'm guessing most people don't challenge their findings and end up paying a lot for unnecessary and ineffective part replacements.
 


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I have a 2016 Touring sedan bought in Nov 2015. Car has been great except last September when on a road trip we noticed that the A/C wasn't blowing cold air. Took it to the dealer and they could not find a leak. They charged me $200 to recharge it and they put some dye in it and said to bring it back after 1000 miles. They also said if they find the leak they will refund the cost of the recharge. Brought it back after 1k miles and they could not find the leak, but it was still blowing cold air so they said to bring it back when it stops working. Couple weeks ago it stopped blowing cold air so I took it back to the dealer. Initially they said it was the condenser and that it would cost $600 because they found rock damage. I said show me, and while I saw some bent fins there wasn't really any damage that would cause a leak. I said if the rock damage was causing a leak, the dye should how where. The tech wasn't aware of the dye so he checked again with the UV light. He couldn't show any leak from rock damage, nor any leak at all. They recharged it for free so it's working again, but I am worried that this may become an annual event. I really hope Honda figures this out and proactively offers a fix.

BTW, thanks for uploading that picture of the rock damage inspection instructions. When I pulled that out to compare they changed their tune. I'm guessing most people don't challenge their findings and end up paying a lot for unnecessary and ineffective part replacements.
Amazing how they change their story when confronted by an owner that shows some awareness of the problem !!

What does not seem to make sense with the above, is that if they put UV Dye in the unit when they recharged it the 1st time, and it leaked, so needed a 2nd re-charge, where did the dye go, and why could they not find any sign of the dye when you brought the car in the 2nd time to be recharged, AFTER they had put the dye in. ??

Does not pass the "sniff test"

BTW: UV Flashlight from Harbor Freight is about $10 -- well worth having.

Also, a USB Endoscope Camera for about $20 (Amazon or Ebay) allows you to get in and view and document the state of your Condenser, so when the Dealers claims your Condenser is "Damaged", you have your own photographic evidence to show it's true state.

Being an informed consumer is advantageous to the economy, market and consumers .
An informed consumer is capable of making sensible decisions, gains an insight about a product prior to its purchase or repair.

.This insight equips the consumer with the data to arrive at an evidence based conclusion.

It's a shame they stopped putting the Refrigerant "Sight Glass" in modern cars... My 1987 Maxima has a "sight Glass" in the top of the "Dryer", and you can see the liquid refrigerant passing by through the system, see if it has bubbles in in (sign Refrigerant is low), and with a UV light, clearly see if there is dye in the refrigerant.



Note: If this car has had UV Dye added to the Refrigerant, and you were viewing with a UV Flashlight, the liquid Refrigerant would show as a bright glowing green/yellow liquid.
While there is no commentary with this video, it seems to show that this car has a reasonably full charge.



This one would appear to be low on Refrigerant.. bubbles in sight glass, and then confirmed by fast compressor cycling, and low High side pressure.

The sight Glass provides an easy way for the Car owner, (without using a Manifold gauge set), to "EASILY and QUICKLY" get a good idea about the state of their Refrigerant charge.



(above) Another VERY GOOD A/C Youtube video -- maybe one of the best to explain how A/C can be diagnosed.

Even if you do not intend to do your own A/C maintenance/repair work, having a basic/good knowledge of how the system works, and how it is diagnosed, puts you on a far better position to judge the BS that you may be fed by the Dealer.
 

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What does not seem to make sense with the above, is that if they put UV Dye in the unit when they recharged it the 1st time, and it leaked, so needed a 2nd re-charge, where did the dye go, and why could they not find any sign of the dye when you brought the car in the 2nd time to be recharged, AFTER they had put the dye in. ??
Yeah, when they wanted to charge me for a new condenser, I asked if they would refund the cost of the first recharge. When they did the recharge with dye, I asked them to put in the notes that they would refund the cost if the leak was found. They tried to claim that the rock damage wasn't the cause of the leak, in which case why would I need a new condenser? It didn't make sense so I asked to see the condenser for myself, which was when I mentioned to the tech that dye was put in last time, which he didn't know. It seems they operate on autopilot until someone pushes back and is armed with information.
 

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My 16 EX-T at about 43.4K miles’ A/C just started crapping out yesterday. It wasn’t a gradual change over weeks: while driving to the store, it went from frigid cold air to lukewarm within about two minutes. Took a picture this morning, and now wondering if they’ll replace condenser under TSB 19-091 should the condenser actually turn out to be the problem.

View attachment 178116
 

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My 16 EX-T at about 43.4K miles’ A/C just started crapping out yesterday. It wasn’t a gradual change over weeks: while driving to the store, it went from frigid cold air to lukewarm within about two minutes. Took a picture this morning, and now wondering if they’ll replace condenser under TSB 19-091 should the condenser actually turn out to be the problem.

View attachment 178116
Pretty sure that is a pic of the intercooler
 


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Which looks like it’s been driven on gravel roads daily
Yeah was in a rush and posted the wrong pic. But also yes: they’ve been doing intense construction where I live for the better part of 3 years, but I was able to take alternate routes to my office until I couldn’t anymore. Got the gravel part right, sadly.
 

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the good news is the flat edges of all those bent fins cool down very effectively.... the rest of the fin behind the bent edge.... not so much
 

CSB0714

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the good news is the flat edges of all those bent fins cool down very effectively.... the rest of the fin behind the bent edge.... not so much
Given the rampant problems I’ve been reading about throughout the day on here during downtimes in the office, I’m strongly considering rigging a cover so the gravel doesn’t continue pummeling it
 

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Given the rampant problems I’ve been reading about throughout the day on here during downtimes in the office, I’m strongly considering rigging a cover so the gravel doesn’t continue pummeling it
Get some thin cheap metal mesh, lay 3 layers on top of itself to create a fine mesh. Sadly this impacts cooling capacity to some extent since you are partially blocking airflow. But I did it on my WRX for the TMIC (because people love putting tools there) and it worked great.

Personally I just have left mine alone, I haven't really looked up close to see the condition of the fins. over 30k miles....
 

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Get some thin cheap metal mesh, lay 3 layers on top of itself to create a fine mesh. Sadly this impacts cooling capacity to some extent since you are partially blocking airflow. But I did it on my WRX for the TMIC (because people love putting tools there) and it worked great.

Personally I just have left mine alone, I haven't really looked up close to see the condition of the fins. over 30k miles....
I’ll have to try that once I get the situation of “why my A/C just took a dump out of nowhere” figured out
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