2017 SI stock with 61,000 mi Engine Failure!

Should I simply accept their offer to cover cost at 90% with 30K warrenty?


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Syntek

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I misunderstood then, I assumed he had the extended warranty that you buy from Honda, not the one they offered regarding the dilution issue.
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dallasjhawk

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I misunderstood then, I assumed he had the extended warranty that you buy from Honda, not the one they offered regarding the dilution issue.
In my experience, the aftermarket extended warranties (not honda care) are more likely to get covered because they pay going shop rates for repairs, as long as the failure is listed in the coverage of the aftermarket warranty and you take it to a a trusted shop like a Honda dealer.
 

Syntek

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In my experience, the aftermarket extended warranties (not honda care) are more likely to get covered because they pay going shop rates for repairs, as long as the failure is listed in the coverage of the aftermarket warranty and you take it to a a trusted shop like a Honda dealer.
Speaking of which, I should probably buy my extended Honda-care warranty before I throw in more miles in this thing
 
OP
OP

BlownSI

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I did have the extended warrenty for the first 30-40k miles. I just thought I would be fine without it and canceled it. Just my luck.
 


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BlownSI

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I think its been said but should be said again, the extended warranty TSB is only for certain powertrain parts in the engine, not your full powertrain, basically the cams, rocker arm assemblies etc with misfire codes P0300-P0304.



I wouldn't be too concerned about engine failure. So we have 1 here which we arent even sure why it failed. so lets take the 20 or so blown engines on this forum (most of the owners own doing anyway, not any defects). that represents about .0000001% of the 1.2 million 10th gen civics sold so far. I dont think we have a reliability issue yet. Are there concerns, sure, but we know dilution is normal on all DI engines. Honda is be proactive in trying to limit the dilution on start up. I wouldn't take Honda extended the powertrain warranty on some parts as a sign they know its a problem. I look at it as they are trying to calm the nerves of those who may have concerns by saying, here, have this extra security blanket.

Pic of warranty letter

4dYQxbHlbwwaAcRjvzOFfvasJ9NIRLAjIezS6gBhbOasYGIayuJkWzICH0kpxhyooDt-Tfija&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-1.jpg
I apprecaite the clarification. This is inline with what Honda America told me, except a whirling noise was also required according to the rep. Can you provide a full picture of the letter? I cant read the right side.

I also totaly understand your point abiut the reliablilty concern, but here are my two rebuttals:

1. There arent too many civics with this many miles on them yet. We dont know the true number of engines that failed and which ones that have not failed that are passed the 60k warrenty. Time will tell.

2. I am one guy and if I am the .00001% then shouldnt Honda treat the handfull of us better? I am an engineer and I know the difficulty of getting skmething 100% right over and over again. If its a fluke, give me a pass. Especially when I JUST brought the car in for an oil change, I am only 1k out of warrenty, and I had an extended warrenty that I paid over $1000.0 into already, but cancelled.

I am more upset with Hondas treatment than their engineering.
 

Civics4Ever

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That sucks man. Seems like we have a few blown motors on here. Anytime you have a 1.5L running 19-20 psi in stock form anything can happen. Curious to see if these motors stand the test of time like the old vtecs. Hopefully it all works out in your favor bro!
I have just under 80k miles on my 2016 Ext Tuned at 63k miles. Most are highway miles like the OP, really not much city driving and no issues. There are a bunch out there with over 100k miles too. I'm not worried.
 
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BlownSI

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I have just under 80k miles on my 2016 Ext Tuned at 63k miles. Most are highway miles like the OP, really not much city driving and no issues. There are a bunch out there with over 100k miles too. I'm not worried.
Im glad. I wasnt worried either. And my luck is such I am in this position. I just cant believe it honestly.
 

rive

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Part of the problem you are running into is the corporate structure of Honda/Honda North America. Basically, Honda is small. In the automotive manufacturing world, they really are small. Back when Toyota had a temporary slip in reliability (I think around 2008), a Honda rep said something along the lines of "we won't ever be in that particular position because Toyota was trying to keep up with market-leading demand and we are simply too small to compete in that race. We produce a certain number of cars per year and that's it." That sentiment is indicative of how they handle problems though. Honda corporate doesn't really do anything for individuals and they don't plan to employ sufficient manpower to do so. They have a small team that sits between corporate and the dealerships to play a deciding role in disputes (like this), but generally everything is handled at the dealership level, and dealers are reimbursed for things if paperwork is submitted with all the right boxes checked and numbers entered. Otherwise, the cost falls to the dealership and they simply have to pay what it takes to provide good customer service.

And there's the rub. Honda dealerships in North America are, more and more, becoming the absolute worst collection of human beings ever assembled. In an effort to chase profits, too many of them have come to the conclusion there isn't much of a penalty to taking advantage of their customers. When numbers drop, they blame shifts in market trends. A good Honda dealer (and there are examples out there including one in this very thread) will admit the fault and take care of the customer 100%. All the rest will pretend that orders come from on high and their hands are tied. This simply isn't the way Honda works, and they are betting that you won't know the difference. The dealer makes the call in 90% of the cases and the arbitrators make the call the rest of the time. Even getting a lawyer won't necessarily get Honda corporate's attention, as they are still likely to recommend the dealer handle its own business. And when you call "corporate" you are actually contacting a call center that screens whether or not to pass your info along to the arbitrators. Honda corporate does not like to get involved.

None of this helps you. None of this should alleviate your fears about a blown engine at 61k miles. I tell you all of this to provide clarity about which fears should remain and which fears you can let go of. Specifically, engineering is not the problem here. Plenty of 1.5T blocks have passed 100k miles already without issue. Multiple failures have been reported immediately after oil changes and have been found to be caused by the technician's failure when examined by an independent party. Honda's own experience with developing small-displacement, high-boost engines in F1 has provided them ample data on wear rates and fail points. There is a reason the clutch in the Si can basically only handle the power provided from the factory when it would have been so easy for Honda to use the Type R clutch instead. Honda engineers know exactly how long all the parts in this powertrain should last under real world conditions if left mechanically unaltered, and it is certainly substantially more than 61k miles. If you have a reliable, trustworthy independent mechanic, there is no reason to expect this car to do anything short of lasting a remarkably long time. If you have to trust Honda's corporate structure and dealerships, then you've moved beyond the portion that Honda engineers can control and you should still be very concerned. I'm sorry for the overly-verbose post, but Honda has a very real problem and it isn't their engineering; it's just everything else about them as a company.
 


David228cx

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It's very fishy that it failed AFTER an oil change. Good luck and I hope they charge you nothing after all.
It would appear someone screwed up during that change...
 

Zeffy94

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Part of the problem you are running into is the corporate structure of Honda/Honda North America. Basically, Honda is small. In the automotive manufacturing world, they really are small. Back when Toyota had a temporary slip in reliability (I think around 2008), a Honda rep said something along the lines of "we won't ever be in that particular position because Toyota was trying to keep up with market-leading demand and we are simply too small to compete in that race. We produce a certain number of cars per year and that's it." That sentiment is indicative of how they handle problems though. Honda corporate doesn't really do anything for individuals and they don't plan to employ sufficient manpower to do so. They have a small team that sits between corporate and the dealerships to play a deciding role in disputes (like this), but generally everything is handled at the dealership level, and dealers are reimbursed for things if paperwork is submitted with all the right boxes checked and numbers entered. Otherwise, the cost falls to the dealership and they simply have to pay what it takes to provide good customer service.

And there's the rub. Honda dealerships in North America are, more and more, becoming the absolute worst collection of human beings ever assembled. In an effort to chase profits, too many of them have come to the conclusion there isn't much of a penalty to taking advantage of their customers. When numbers drop, they blame shifts in market trends. A good Honda dealer (and there are examples out there including one in this very thread) will admit the fault and take care of the customer 100%. All the rest will pretend that orders come from on high and their hands are tied. This simply isn't the way Honda works, and they are betting that you won't know the difference. The dealer makes the call in 90% of the cases and the arbitrators make the call the rest of the time. Even getting a lawyer won't necessarily get Honda corporate's attention, as they are still likely to recommend the dealer handle its own business. And when you call "corporate" you are actually contacting a call center that screens whether or not to pass your info along to the arbitrators. Honda corporate does not like to get involved.

None of this helps you. None of this should alleviate your fears about a blown engine at 61k miles. I tell you all of this to provide clarity about which fears should remain and which fears you can let go of. Specifically, engineering is not the problem here. Plenty of 1.5T blocks have passed 100k miles already without issue. Multiple failures have been reported immediately after oil changes and have been found to be caused by the technician's failure when examined by an independent party. Honda's own experience with developing small-displacement, high-boost engines in F1 has provided them ample data on wear rates and fail points. There is a reason the clutch in the Si can basically only handle the power provided from the factory when it would have been so easy for Honda to use the Type R clutch instead. Honda engineers know exactly how long all the parts in this powertrain should last under real world conditions if left mechanically unaltered, and it is certainly substantially more than 61k miles. If you have a reliable, trustworthy independent mechanic, there is no reason to expect this car to do anything short of lasting a remarkably long time. If you have to trust Honda's corporate structure and dealerships, then you've moved beyond the portion that Honda engineers can control and you should still be very concerned. I'm sorry for the overly-verbose post, but Honda has a very real problem and it isn't their engineering; it's just everything else about them as a company.
Acura is no better. When my dad bought his ILX the dealer tricked him by letting him test drive a premium trim one and then selling him the base model, not neglecting to mention that what he wanted (not the POS base Honda infotainment system that I had in my 2013 Civic LX) wasn’t included in said base trim. Not even 10 minutes after leaving the dealer he called them and tried to get them to place him in the premium optioned one. Nope, not even an attempt.

Reached out to Acura Corporate and while they apologized they did not do anything to rectify the situation. So my dad has been stuck with it ever since and I have to admit (and he feels the same) the Civic would have been the smarter choice. Only redeeming factor is the 8DCT.

Not to mention Acura dealers aren’t even a pleasant experience like Lexus are. Lexus priorities the luxury experience and that’s why they do so well. Acura... treats everyone as if they owned a Honda (which they do if we’re being technical).

The customer service is deplorable, which saddens me because of how great of cars Honda builds.
 

Rc1989

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Any update.on this? I would not authorize anything until I see the vehicle.and tests performed to verify engine failure. Especially after an oil change
 

xbbnx

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Idk why the OP seems to keep ignoring our hunch here that THIS WAS NOT DUE TO HONDA'S ENGINEERING DEFECT. The technician messed up somewhere(how he did has yet to be proven) but I can almost guarantee that this was not an engine defect. "You have to take there word for it" is just your excuse to not fight them on it, period. 61K hassle free miles, you go in for an oil change, your car dies, and you come on here and practically bash Honda's engineering by posting multiple oil dilution videos instead of using common sense and connecting the dots. The dealership messed your car up period they are responsible and are trying to cover their ass, don't be a fool .
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