Need help deciding between 2019 STI and 2019 Civic Type R

garoto · Sep 16, 2019

frodooftheshire said:
Hi guys,

Fist, I apologize for such a long post and appreciate if you read all the way through. Also, I should stipulate this is for a daily driver, not a weekend car.

So I currently have a down payment on a Civic Type R that’s located in another state. Took at least a solid week or two to nail it down. The paperwork from the dealership is on the way (should be here Monday) and I was able to secure it for $37K minus the costs of registering in my state, so I’m quite happy with the price and it really isn’t a factor in this decision.

The problem is that before I pulled the trigger on the down payment I mostly used YouTube comparisons/magazine articles as my main source for making my decision and now after reading some of this forum I’m wondering if it’s the right choice.

I currently have a 2019 WRX series gray. It’s been an okay car, but in comparison to my previous car, a 2017 Mazda MX5 (6 speed), I would say that I’ve been less than impressed with its inconsistent engine tuning and lack luster gear box. About 20 % of the time I go WOT I will get a nice, smooth pull to 6K RPM. The rest of the time it’s a giant question mark. Sometimes it will pull pretty hard, cut power at 4K RPM, and then rip again to 5,500 RPM. It’s all over the board.

The handling has been overall pretty nice and I’ve felt the torque vectoring system help rotate me around turns. Having said that, overall, it doesn’t nearly as much bring a smile to my face like my Mazda, even though the WRX is still faster. It really goes to show you that power isn’t everything when it comes to what makes a car “fun.” If I didn’t need something more practical I probably would still have my MX5.

Overall the WRX just doesn’t produce the “love” feeling I had towards my Mazda. The other major issue I’ve had with my WRX is road noise and rattles - seriously my car only as 8,400 miles on it and I have rattles coming from the trunk, the speaker grills, the dash, the glove box. It’s nuts. The road noise might be helped by better tires (Michelin P4S), but rattling seems to be something most WRX owners accept is part of ownership. At the same time I’ve seen some STI owners report no issues with rattles. Anyways, all the issues above has lead me to consider something different as I have no interest in modifying my car or taking it apart and insulate rattles.

The main two cars I was looking at is the Civic Type R and the WRX STi. Here are the reasons I was considering the STI to replace my WRX:

More power

Much more consistent engine tune, even if it means more turbo lag down low

Much better transmission

Better sound - the WRX can make some noises, but the STI is obviously better

Maybe it’s put together better (less rattles)

AWD can be nice because Oregon does get quite a bit of rain and some snow - no spinning the wheels off the line

Good resale value like WRX/Type R (very popular in the pacific NW)

Excellent visibility

Maybe slightly better styling vs the Type R

Here are the negatives as I see them compared to Type R/WRX:

Ancient engine means horrible gas mileage compared to the Type R or even my current WRX

Rattles could very well still be an issue with the STI

Doesn’t have any suspension modes - always running pretty stuff

Stereo not nearly as nice as Type Rs and no navigation (without spending a lot more money on limited version)

From what I’ve read it isn’t as much *fun* as the Type R (Type R is lighter…which I found with the MX5 is a good thing)

The engine doesn’t feel quick until the upper Revs, while the Type R will have power almost anywhere in the rev range

Seating position is a little high - not low like Type R

Now here are all the reasons I was considering the Type R:

Like the STI, much better engine tuning

More overall engine power and flexibility across the entire rev range

Sharper, more nimble chassis

From what I’ve read the interior is quieter than the STI with less overall rattles

Head unit includes GPS and has much better sound system

Different chassis modes means more options for cruising around town/road trips

Transmission is excellent - reminds me of my MX5 (shifting it in the dealership lol)

More comfortable seats/seating position compared to WRX or STI

Holds its value ridiculously well

Negatives that I’ve recently read about the Type R on here/general concerns:

The paint chipping off - one of the more scarier for me - I will be doing PPF to the front with a ceramic coating, but the idea of buying a new car where the paint just peels off is quite concerning

Overheating - some have said on hotter days the car feels lethargic after one pull

The gear grinds - slightly coercing that three years into making this car Honda hasn’t done anything to revise the transmission

Not as good of visibility as WRX/STI

Tires are a huge pain in the ass - it sounds like I’ll need to spend money on two new sets of wheels/tires out of the gate (one for summer & one for winter)

Interior might still have some rattling issues

FWD with lots of Oregon rain - will I be missing the AWD

No seat heaters (wife loves them) and Seats show wear prematurely

Headlights not projectors - not nearly as good as steering sensitive HIDs on STI

The problem with these cars is it’s very hard to compare them. Nobody will let you drive a Type R, and while I was able to drive a 2019 STI I didn’t take it above 4k (where all the power is) due to engine break in. At least I know the transmission is better. So because of this limitation I’m left reading online forums, magazine reviews, and YouTube videos which all say the Type R is the one to buy. My only problem is that a lot of them are based on track driving, which I’ll never do - just spirited driving around town and on back roads.

So what I’m really interested in is hearing from those that maybe owned an STI (2018 or 2019 model) that now drive the Type R and what they might say to some of the concerns. Do you miss the AWD? How is the interior rattles/noise compared? Are you happier overall? I know if I’m not happy with the Type R I could probably flip it easily, and for a great price, but it’s a lot of hassle. If you were in my position, and lived in Oregon where we see quite a bit of rain would you still go for the Type R or say the STI is a better fit?

The only real disadvantages with the Type R is now AWD for the rain, and you do need a new set of wheels / tires out of the gate. Everything else you said, like transmission grind or premature seat wear is just bullshit from everyone who says it.

I own an S2000 and a Type R, and the S2000 brings a smile to my face way more often than the Type R. The Type R is faster and handles better, but when you haul so much weight and a bunch of air (rear seats) and a big cockpit, a roof, higher center of gravity, 62/38 weight distribution etc, you feel it. The Type R will make you smile for different reasons, but I find the S2000 to be the better car overall.

GeezR · Sep 16, 2019

The Type R is 2 cars in one: a comfortable daily driver, with tons of back seat room and a large trunk, comfortable seats, cruise, nice stereo, etc. Throw a couple of switches and it is a track day weapon of epic proportion (at least on cool days).

The STI is one car in one. It is a noisy bumpy, powerful, awesome track day weapon. As a daily driver it loses points. My family has had all three (WRX,STI, and currently Type R) so I do have a basis of comparison.

If you are buying mostly for track days I'd go with the STI, esp in warmer climate. If it's a DD, then hands down for the Type R.

And as others have said, the 2020 STI is waiting in the wings and it should be a massive improvement over the current version, so think abt waiting.

Zeffy94 · Sep 16, 2019

The STI is an older car, and as such, is less refined. However, it provides a relatively analog style of driving because of that. Whether or not that’s a good thing is up to your tastes.

The Type R is more refined, the K20C1 motor is much newer and advanced than the EJ in the Subaru, and the transmission from what I’ve gathered is much better too in the Honda.

I can do winter with all season tires here in PA, but to keep the salt off my car I’ll probably sacrifice my Toyota instead of the Type R when winter finally rolls around. If you live in a mountainous area then AWD may have its benefits for traction.

I think the FA20 motor found in the normal WRX, when tuned, might be a better value than the STI, but man unequal length headers just aren’t replaceable...

NoelPR · Sep 16, 2019

Well is a CTR forum of course the recommendations will be CTR. :dunno:

ToofHurts · Sep 16, 2019

My last f/u ... you need to decide what you want to do with the car. It seems there's a lot of people on the forum that complain about the CTR with overheating issues on a race track / modding for 400 WHP goals. And those two are some negatives if this is a factor. I don't race my car on a track and want to keep the car relatively stock. The motor can't handle 400+ WHP without internals and the FWD likely won't be able to put that power down anyway. So if your looking for a 400+ stage 3 monster - maybe this isn't the car for you. Granting - just like in 98-01 with the Integra Type R - I don't think this is the car for that. Tracking the car is a minor flaw with the car (so it seems) with the overheating and you'll likely need to invest some money in upgrades to help. And I do ask people that complain about overheating in daily driving if they have an aftermarket intake installed on the car. As has been documented over and over - aftermarket intakes (minus *maybe* PRL and eventuri) - will heat soak engine MUCH worse that stock. They only produce more sound.

Just like it's older brother - the Integra type R ... this is a great car for the $. These cars aren't 1/4 mile monsters. They don't make 400+ HP. They don't shoot flames out from the back. It's a well balanced FWD car that is a great DD and also track car. And will likely hold its value VERY well in the future.

davemarco · Sep 16, 2019

Both the STI and Type R have plenty of rattles, and neither will replicate the same feeling as your MX-5 (while driving under normal conditions). Speaking for my R, I find that the extremely solid chassis means that I don't feel like I'm going fast under 80 mph, or while pulling less than 0.7 G's in a turn. It's amazing for being fast, but not for feeling like you're going fast.

The torque dip on the stock tune of the 2015+ WRX is well known. This issue is completely fixed in the COBB Accessport basemaps. Why not just get a Cobb and keep the WRX? I love my Type R and all, but once the honeymoon phase wears off, you WILL have things about it that will bug you (like any car). In my case, it's an extremely notchy 2nd gear and dash panels that resonate and buzz at certain RPM's. These are fixable, but don't kid yourself in thinking that a Type R won't have those kinds of issues.

FifStreet · Sep 16, 2019

frodooftheshire said:
Negatives that I’ve recently read about the Type R on here/general concerns:

The paint chipping off - one of the more scarier for me - I will be doing PPF to the front with a ceramic coating, but the idea of buying a new car where the paint just peels off is quite concerning

Overheating - some have said on hotter days the car feels lethargic after one pull

The gear grinds - slightly coercing that three years into making this car Honda hasn’t done anything to revise the transmission

Not as good of visibility as WRX/STI

Tires are a huge pain in the ass - it sounds like I’ll need to spend money on two new sets of wheels/tires out of the gate (one for summer & one for winter)

Interior might still have some rattling issues

FWD with lots of Oregon rain - will I be missing the AWD

No seat heaters (wife loves them) and Seats show wear prematurely

Headlights not projectors - not nearly as good as steering sensitive HIDs on STI

My thoughts on the above.

I've had no issues with paint chipping other than normal from road debris. If this is going to be your daily driver, then paint will chip. Any defects in the paint should be covered under warranty

I've never experienced overheating or reduction in performance from heat. I've never done a full track day, but plenty of autocross events.

I've had a gear grind happen twice in a over a year. I'm pretty sure both times it was my fault.

Visibility: I can't compare it to the STI but the blind spot is larger than other cars. Adjust your mirrors accordingly. I've gotten used to it.

Tires: Yes. Cost of wheels and tires is a factor.

I've had no interior rattles

FWD vs. AWD. I live in an extremely snowy area. Proper tires are a WAY bigger factor over drivetrain in slippery conditions.

Heated seats: Personally I don't care for them. The seats are cloth anyway... now a heated/cooled shift knob? that would be more useful. lol. The shift knob gets very hot/cold. Consider a cover or a aftermarket knob.

Headlights: I have no complaints here.

incinerator · Sep 16, 2019

Test drove the 2019 STI before settling on the CTR. I'd always wanted one, but soon realized after that 2019 is not a good time for it. Despite the tech, the car just feels old. It's heavy and rough on the street. All the power comes at the top in a tiny wedge of RPMs, which is OK on the track, but you'll hardly ever tap into that during your commute. As a daily driver, the Type R wins across the board.

If your heart is really set on a brand new STI, I'd recommend holding out for the next-gen 2021 model.

boosted180sx · Sep 16, 2019

when these questions are asked, most of the time the answer you will get is biased.
If you go to the subaru forums and asked that same question, i bet you will have totally opposite answers to here.

When i was looking for a car 2 years ago, it was between the CTR and the STI. I ultimately chose the CTR and the main factor was the EJ25. The motor is ancient.
If you really want a STI, i'd wait until it gets the refresh. Current one is not worth it.

wildbilly32 · Sep 16, 2019

Never owned a WRX but the youngest kid did. He had a tune put on it that bumped the hp up to the STI level per the dyno. I drove his car and liked it, in fact tried to buy it but he traded it in. This was a couple of years ago. Same kid brought a 2018 CTR. I drove his and liked it better. I now own a 2019 CTR. Here's why: The WRX was quick(remember the tune) but you could feel the extra weight compared to the CTR. The CTR feels more nimble and is so much fun above 3,000rpm. Even just the rush up to hiway speeds. I have to admit I'm not crazy about the visibility in the mirrors but I am spoiled by my other toy car. I do not plan to drive the CTR in the winter so have no input there. Buying a car is a personal experience. Depends on what you want and need. Good Luck with your choice.

kevv_FK8 · Sep 16, 2019

GeezR said:
The Type R is 2 cars in one: a comfortable daily driver, with tons of back seat room and a large trunk, comfortable seats, cruise, nice stereo, etc. Throw a couple of switches and it is a track day weapon of epic proportion (at least on cool days).

The STI is one car in one. It is a noisy bumpy, powerful, awesome track day weapon. As a daily driver it loses points. My family has had all three (WRX,STI, and currently Type R) so I do have a basis of comparison.

If you are buying mostly for track days I'd go with the STI, esp in warmer climate. If it's a DD, then hands down for the Type R.

And as others have said, the 2020 STI is waiting in the wings and it should be a massive improvement over the current version, so think abt waiting.

an STI over a type R for track days?

you do know the R has waxed the STI in every track day comparison right? lol

lawl · Sep 16, 2019

wildbilly32 said:
Never owned a WRX but the youngest kid did. He had a tune put on it that bumped the hp up to the STI level per the dyno. I drove his car and liked it, in fact tried to buy it but he traded it in. This was a couple of years ago. Same kid brought a 2018 CTR. I drove his and liked it better. I now own a 2019 CTR. Here's why: The WRX was quick(remember the tune) but you could feel the extra weight compared to the CTR. The CTR feels more nimble and is so much fun above 3,000rpm. Even just the rush up to hiway speeds. I have to admit I'm not crazy about the visibility in the mirrors but I am spoiled by my other toy car. I do not plan to drive the CTR in the winter so have no input there. Buying a car is a personal experience. Depends on what you want and need. Good Luck with your choice.

You wanted to buy a car from your son and he traded it in anyway?? Had that happen to me once by a friend. Made me so mad, but it was a Mini Cooper and I now understand it was probably for the best

Leads me to the conclusion that
1) he hated the car so much that he had to protect you from it
2) he has never fully forgiven you for something you've done to him in the past

I'd go with #1 as a former turbo subaru owner.

My 2 cents: there are people who are now driving who were BORN when the ej25 came out here. They've sold the same car (basically) for 16 years now.

According to rumors for the BRZ/86 this is a company that listened to criticism, decided yes, the car needs more power, then put a motor with a turbo on it that already makes 260 hp in a different car. Awesome right? AND THEN THEY ONLY GAVE IT 217 HORSEPOWER FOR WHATEVER REASON.

Also, if you pick up an Sti, have fun going to car meets where you stand in front of your car vaping looking at other subro-roo owners vaping in front of their cars. Only saving grace really is nobody at these meets are doing burnouts and attracting attention, but maybe it's more because you can't do burnouts in an Sti.

Insurance- maybe won't make much of a difference if you're buying a 40k car new, but WRX/STI insurance was pretty bad last time i looked at it

TIRE ROTATION- if you don't absolutely need it, avoid AWD (especially if you have bad luck like I do). you probably already know, but if you have tires at 50% and one becomes un-reparable, all 4 tires need to be replaced. Had that happen 2 or 3 times in Socal and then I finally figured out who the hell needs AWD in socal?

I've owned Toyotas, and sold them. Still a Toyota fan
I've owned Hondas, and sold them. Still a Honda fan
I've owned Mazdas, and sold them. Still a Mazda fan

I've owned 1 subaru, experienced and looked at the destruction all around me, and sold it. F SUBARU.

That is all.

lawl · Sep 16, 2019

kevv_FK8 said:
an STI over a type R for track days?

you do know the R has waxed the STI in every track day comparison right? lol

I think he has a point though. I'd rather be in a slower car that can go more than 3 hotlaps without overheating, but YMMV.

kevv_FK8 · Sep 16, 2019

lawl said:
I think he has a point though. I'd rather be in a slower car that can go more than 3 hotlaps without overheating, but YMMV.

nah, ill take my chances in the R...much better car to toss around and have fun in.

b534202 · Sep 16, 2019

I have a 2002 WRX with just a tune and exhaust, so it makes less power than what the CTR makes. I would still say the WRX feels faster than the CTR. But of course then again I have my WRX for 19 years, I know how to drive it while the CTR is still new to me.

Need help deciding between 2019 STI and 2019 Civic Type R

garoto

Senior Member

GeezR

Senior Member

Zeffy94

Senior Member

NoelPR

Senior Member

ToofHurts

Senior Member

davemarco

Senior Member

FifStreet

Senior Member

incinerator

Member

boosted180sx

Senior Member

wildbilly32

Senior Member

kevv_FK8

Senior Member

lawl

Senior Member

lawl

Senior Member

kevv_FK8

Senior Member

b534202

Senior Member

Similar threads