CVT failure: Details inside

a c i d.f l y said:

Didn't someone take a CVT on the track, and around 225ft/lb torque would causing scoring on the belt and dome inside the CVT? But at 200ft/lb it could be run hard all day long, and showed zero signs of scoring? Wish I could find that post.

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Coupe-R said:

Just thought I'd share my experience with my recent CVT failure, what (probably) caused it, and how it was resolved thankfully under warranty. See TL;DR on the bottom if you don't want all the details (though the details shine a lot of light on what happened). Feel free to AMA if it's not already included in this post.

1. Background info
   • 2018 Civic EX-T 1.5 with around 33,500 miles at time of failure
   • Performance bolt ons are as follows:
     • PRL 3" catted downpipe & frontpipe
     • AFE Takeda intake
     • 3" straight through (no mufflers or resonators) shop made catback exhaust
     • KTuner custom dyno tune targeting 24psi on the top end
   • My driving style: On weekends, for car events/meets, or just during awesome weather; sporty and aggressive. For the Monday-Friday 30 mile each way commute to work - very conservative on Eco mode.
2. KTuner specific details
   • Early spool enabled, Improved spool II and Improved Throttle Responsiveness II.
   • On the fly maps:
   • Tune 1 is factory turbo responsiveness and factory Boost Target Ramp Rate. This tune is capped at 21psi (Eco mode is 17psi). This is what I use for the M-F commute and regular easy driving.
   • Tune 2 is Improved Turbo Responsiveness II, Boost Target Ramp Rate is Aggressive Ramp Rate II, and targets 24psi. This is what I use when I just want to feel the power, street race, etc. I use this map less than 15% of the time.
3. So what happened? I pushed the limits (that I knew well about, thanks to this forum) on my CVT and paid the price.
   • Background: I was at a late night meet with at least 200 other cars in this industrial area of a city in my state (little to no risk of police shutting us down here). Everybody was having a great time, especially with the shenanigans. People 2 stepping, burnouts, street racing, you know how it goes. I decided to participate in a couple straight line street races against other cars in the Civic's class.
   • The first 2 races went just fine, I actually won both to my own surprise. The third one is where "it" happened.
   • I had traction control disabled (have good summer tires that don't lose traction even if floored from a dead stop), had map 2 on (the one targeting 24psi up top, aggressive ramp II, and turbo responsiveness II). Car was in "S". I flew off the line, and when I got up to around 5900rpm and the car was going to do the simulated shift point, I felt it lurch twice, then nothing. The pedal was to the floor, engine screaming, but no further movement. I let momentum bring me to the side of the road. I immediately knew the tranny went and my heart dropped. No check engine lights were present.
   • Before I had the car towed to a Honda dealer that was about 6 miles away, I returned the car to the stock tune with my KTuner v2 and unlocked it from the ECU while on the side of the road. It was Saturday-Sunday night so the dealership was closed. I dropped the key in the key drop, filled out the form, and called Monday.
   • The dealership verified transmission failure, and submitted the warranty request to "TechLine". They said that either a new transmission would show up the next day meaning the request was approved, or that they would get a call from Honda Engineering and would do an investigation first. Waiting those 24 hours for an answer was nerve wracking. I got a call the next morning, and low and behold a new transmission for me was delivered. No investigation was performed. I got my car back 3 days ago and it drives perfectly. See the below picture of the invoice I received after the service was done

1. Car now and going forward
   • I made the decision that though those functions in the tune are fun, I am going to pull back a good amount. I reduced the max PSI to 21, turned off early spool, and set Turbo Responsiveness and Boost Target Ramp Rate to "factory". This is a much more conservative tune and my hope is that the new CVT will last a lot longer than the original one. I feel the difference in the transmission driving with these new parameters. Before, the simulated shifts were very pronounced, especially when in the higher RPM band. It would even clunk when getting off the throttle up top. It doesn't do that anymore, and power delivery is much smoother and more "linear" feeling.

TL;DR

Was well aware of the CVT limits, pushed them anyway, then paid the price. Was doing some late night straight line street races at a meet. On the 3rd race, CVT failed. Custom dyno tune with KTuner, 24psi, early spool enabled, Turbo Responsiveness II and Aggressive Ramp Rate II. Honda dealer replaced the transmission under warranty. Moving forward I made my tune significantly more conservative. Reduced the max PSI to 21, turned off early spool, and set Turbo Responsiveness and Boost Target Ramp Rate to "factory".

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a c i d.f l y said:

Didn't someone take a CVT on the track, and around 225ft/lb torque would causing scoring on the belt and dome inside the CVT? But at 200ft/lb it could be run hard all day long, and showed zero signs of scoring? Wish I could find that post.

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SDzx said:

I think that was from the hondata video about cvts.

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dragonov said:

I'm just curious. What was your TQ and HP?

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xjoshuax89 said:

For reference the 250 number mentioned is what is coded into our ecu but it is set at 250nm and not ft lbs and we all know that our cars easily surpass that with no problem.

250nm = 184 ft lbs

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garoto said:

But I am just gonna say, that you can have butter as tires and you wouldn’t need traction control to be on when getting off the line with a CVT.

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garoto said:

There’s so much to say about all of this, particularly the part where you literally shafted Honda and you should have been the one to pay for a new tranny. But I am just gonna say, that you can have butter as tires and you wouldn’t need traction control to be on when getting off the line with a CVT.

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garoto said:

I am just gonna say, that you can have butter as tires and you wouldn’t need traction control to be on when getting off the line with a CVT.

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dallasjhawk said:

Lets not ignore all the times the dealer shafts people, from sales price, to the add ons, to the finance department to denying warranty for no good reason at all. Yeah, he shouldnt feel bad at all actually.

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gtman said:

Interesting. I think you might be surprised.

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garoto said:

I really don’t think I will be surprised at all.

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garoto said:

That’s not how it works. Sales price is capitalism, you seem to have a problem with capitalism. Denying warranty is resolved by going to a different dealership.

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dallasjhawk said:

Actually it is how it works, and no going to a different dealer doesnt always work. The Regional who has final say usually would have say over multiple dealers in his region. As for capitalism, has nothing to do with the MSRP its all the bullshit they put on the cars that no one needs, and the shady shit pulled in the finance office. most dealers are trash. most recent finance visit went like this "I added in the $1200 8/100 extended warranty, got you a .5% lower interest rate and your payment only went up $8 a month." "Well I dont want that $1200 8/100 warranty, but I'll gladly take the .5% lower rate" So tell me why ADDING $1200 to my loan would all of a sudden qualify me for a .5% lower rate? It didn't but the dealer was holding back that lower rate to make more money on the back end. Dealers are trash.

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