Michelin Sport 4S in Cold Weather

Florence_NC

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I am about to replace the OEMs on my Type R, and I am undecided what to do. I really want to put a set of P4S's on it, but winter is coming. Now keep in mind I live at the NC/SC border, and the coldest day of the year here is a high of 50 and a low of 31. You can usually count the annual number of days that do not exceed freezing on one hand. And the number of nights that go below 20 on the other hand.

Last winter I drove my "Summer-Only" OEMs all season, and while they were not at their best in the cold, they were not terrible except for a couple of really cold nights and a couple of days of rain just above freezing. I even got caught in a light snow and drove about 80 miles through it. I definitely did not have the tire of choice for those occasions, but I respect their limitations and am conscious about their dead-cold tenancies. They were clearly down on traction from warm weather, but I can't say they would be much worse than some A/S tires. Maybe under 20 degrees I might think differently, but we see a temp below 20 on average about 3-5 times a year, and then only at night.

So is there anybody on here that has driven P4S's in mild winter conditions? The OEM Contis are a different tire, and the two tires may react very differently below certain temps. Just because one was manageable doesn't meant he other one will be as well. I know what all the gloom-and-doom lawyer-speak on tire websites says, I am not looking for that info. I want real-world experience.
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TypeSiR

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Don’t drive below 40F on the PS4S. Consider Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ or Conti DWS 06 for all season use.
 
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Z06Chris

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It was discussed in a HUGE thread over on the corvetteforums.

Summer tires warn you not to drive in freezing temps but it really only matters if you drive after they've been sitting in freezing weather. If you leave them out in freezing temps for hours and then drive, they are prone to cracking and you'll have to replace the tire.
If you garage the car and just make a short drive to the grocery store and back then they should be fine.
I wouldn't risk it either way since they lose a lot of grip in the cold.

Some guys got their C7 vettes delivered with cracked tires because they were transported in the cold up north and not brought up to temp before driving on them.


** Every Michelin "max performance summer" tire has the same warning -

Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.
 

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Don’t drive below 40F on the PS4S. Consider Michelin Premier A/S 3+ or Conti DWS 06 for all season use.
Can vouch for Premier. Compound has been updated since 2016. Astounding for an all season. Still not anywhere near as good as a summer tire but these are good all seasons.

Also the DWS don’t really last. As they get down in tread they lose winter traction as the compound changes (and is pointed out in the specs and info), so you should be aware of it.

“ExtremeContact DWS features Tuned Performance Indicators — visible letters molded into the second rib from the outboard shoulder to alert drivers of the tire's performance levels. A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has sufficient tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and light snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has sufficient tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S" have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.”
 


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I learned this the hard way when I moved from Florida to Ohio. I had a Veloster Turbo at the time with the summer tire package. My car was very unresponsive and under steered like crazy in cold temps. I ended up making a left one day from a dead stop. It was after a snowfall, mostly light slush. The car went straight into the curb breaking a section of the front passenger rim. That's when I learned summer compounds are completely useless below 40 degrees. The tires I had on had less than 10k on them, plenty of tread, just no grip.

I'm looking at a set of Nitto Proxes 4+ in 255/30/20. A decent all season tire and a few extra mils in sidewall. Not much but every bit helps.
 

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Could go with the best of both worlds and run PS4S in the summer and switch to something like Michelin A/S 3 in the winter if you can afford it. Having a second set of dedicated smaller diameter rims for the cold weather tires is also worth it if you have the coin and storage space.
 
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Florence_NC

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Don’t drive below 40F on the PS4S. Consider Michelin Premier A/S 3+ or Conti DWS 06 for all season use.
Can vouch for Premier. Compound has been updated since 2016. Astounding for an all season. Still not anywhere near as good as a summer tire but these are good all seasons.

Also the DWS don’t really last. As they get down in tread they lose winter traction as the compound changes (and is pointed out in the specs and info), so you should be aware of it.

“ExtremeContact DWS features Tuned Performance Indicators — visible letters molded into the second rib from the outboard shoulder to alert drivers of the tire's performance levels. A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has sufficient tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and light snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has sufficient tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S" have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.”
If I wanted to go All Seasons, those would be great choices. The problem is that the DWS6 would require that I jump to a 35 series tire, and the Premier isn't available in 20s at all.

And in fact, other than a very small handful of tires from lower-end companies, there are virtually no OEM-sized A/S available anywhere.
 
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tinyman392

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If I wanted to go All Seasons, those would be great choices. The problem is that the DWS6 would require that I jump to a 35 series tire, and the Premier isn't available in 20s at all.

And in fact, other than a very small handful of tires from lower-end companies, there are virtually no OEM-sized A/S available anywhere.
Nitto NeoGen are the only somewhat recommendable all-season tire in the 245/30/20 size. I wasn't the biggest fan of them unfortunately.
 

nickjohn35

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If I wanted to go All Seasons, those would be great choices. The problem is that the DWS6 would require that I jump to a 35 series tire, and the Premier isn't available in 20s at all.

And in fact, other than a very small handful of tires from lower-end companies, there are virtually no OEM-sized A/S available anywhere.
Michelin A/S3+ is available in 20in. I have them on my oem wheels in 255/35/20. They also have them in 245/35/20. Don’t risk putting yourself or others in danger.
 
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baldheadracing

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Don’t drive below 40F on the PS4S. Consider Michelin Premier A/S 3+ or Conti DWS 06 for all season use.
I think that you mean the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+. The Premier A/S (no 3+) is a soft grand-touring tire. Somewhat weirdly, the Premier used to be available in 245/30x20, although I see no current listings. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is available in 245/35x20.

I have been quite impressed with the Pilot Sport A/S 3 (old compound, so no '+'). I bought a set in 245/40x18 back when the Type R was launched for use in shoulder seasons, but I also just used them for a 3000 mile vacation trip. (Road maintenance in some parts of the North-Eastern USA/Eastern Canada is pretty lacking ...) I've also autox'd on them - obviously they're not competitive, but they felt pretty good.
 
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jasonjm

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If I wanted to go All Seasons, those would be great choices. The problem is that the DWS6 would require that I jump to a 35 series tire, and the Premier isn't available in 20s at all.

And in fact, other than a very small handful of tires from lower-end companies, there are virtually no OEM-sized A/S available anywhere.
For winter I’d consider 18s so the patch would be narrower. Makes life lil easier plus don’t have to worry about salt and random grime. Even if you love OEM wheels I think that winter should be an exception.
 

tinyman392

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For winter I’d consider 18s so the patch would be narrower. Makes life lil easier plus don’t have to worry about salt and random grime. Even if you love OEM wheels I think that winter should be an exception.
OP is in North Carolina, I'm not sure how much salt, if any, is used in a year. More specifically the OP has stated that the number of nights that are < 31F is about 5 (or less) and the number of nights < 20F is also about 5 (or less; not including days < 31F count). I'd argue if it were to snow, it would melt within the next day so salt wouldn't be worth it.

The 18s I ended up getting are still 245 wide and stick out further than stock (due to offset) so the contact patch remained the same. I do, however, recommend going to an 18 still, but for different reasons. 18s can be much lighter (set I have are 20 lbs a corner, 10 lighter than the stock) and with the FF setup of the CTR has big gains that you can feel while also allowing a much better tire selection, the PS AS 3+ which have been quoted a few times is available in a size that has very little speedo error (like 0.4% if I'm not mistaken). I've been running them as well and feel they are a very good street tire though I haven't been able to test them in any sort of winter yet.
 

TypeSiR

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I think that you mean the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+. The Premier A/S (no 3+) is a soft grand-touring tire. Somewhat weirdly, the Premier used to be available in 245/30x20, although I see no current listings. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ is available in 245/35x20.

I have been quite impressed with the Pilot Sport A/S 3 (old compound, so no '+'). I bought a set in 245/40x18 back when the Type R was launched for use in shoulder seasons, but I also just used them for a 3000 mile vacation trip. (Road maintenance in some parts of the North-Eastern USA/Eastern Canada is pretty lacking ...) I've also autox'd on them - obviously they're not competitive, but they felt pretty good.
You're right. I meant the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. Very good tires, quiet and grippy.
 
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Florence_NC

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For winter I’d consider 18s so the patch would be narrower. Makes life lil easier plus don’t have to worry about salt and random grime. Even if you love OEM wheels I think that winter should be an exception.

Salt? I don't think you guys get it. We have not a had a weather event here requiring salt in 2 or 3 years. I understand it is tough for some of you way north of me, but my January is like your April. To put this in perspective, I looked up the weather here last winter, this is what I found:

January: The coldest month of the year for us, started on New Years Day with a high of 71. It did not drop below 38 at night until Jan 10. We did have about a 3 week stretch of highs mostly in the 40s and lows in the 20s, some low 20s. But after Feb 2, we only had 6 more nights the entire remainder of the year below freezing.

The coldest day of the year: Dec 9, with a high of 34. That is correct, the coldest day of the year was still above freezing. And the low that night was 32, so it still did not drop below freezing on the night of the coldest day.

Second coldest day: Jan 21, with a high of 37. The low that day was 19, which is also the coldest night of the year. That is also the only time all winter that the temp dropped below 20. Read that again: One night under 20 the entire year.

Days with highs below 40: The two days mentioned above. We only had 2 days all year where the temp failed to reach 40 during the day.

So now maybe you will understand when I say that winter tires are a real stretch for me. There are a small handful where they may come into play, but the number of those days can shift radically based on exactly what is a reasonably-functioning temp for a given Summer tire.
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