Engine just blew!!

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

Masked said:
Honda's already tested this engine's reliability up to 300 whp.

Do you have a link for that? I'd be interested to see it!

I will have to find the article, I read it last year. Let me find it and post the link

whiteSIR · Aug 15, 2019

Honda_RacerX said:
You're getting way too worked up and defensive. You almost act as if you were one of the original designers of this engine.

He's just passing on useful information for the rest of us here on the forums.

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

Masked said:
Honda's already tested this engine's reliability up to 300 hp.

Do you have a link for that? I'd be interested to see it!

I unfortunately cannot find the original article I read, but here is a discussion with Pro Car Studio mentioning how the 1.5L T was durability tested at 300 whp: https://www.civicx.com/threads/perspective-on-the-civic-si-1-5t-engine-choice.6693/

He says in answer to a question "Great questions, I wish I knew the answer to those. The Si 1.5T motor could have a VTC + VTEC head like the K20C1 Type R does, and it might have different internals, but again I'm just not sure. The only thing I know is I have heard from very reliable sources that the current 1.5T motor has been "durability" tested at 300 hp. Specifically what that means is up for debate. My take on that is that it means the 1.5T motor has been driven hard for a prolonged time at 300 hp and did not fail or degrade"

tinyman392 · Aug 15, 2019

amirza786 said:
I unfortunately cannot find the original article I read, but here is a discussion with Pro Car Studio mentioning how the 1.5L T was durability tested at 300 whp: https://www.civicx.com/threads/perspective-on-the-civic-si-1-5t-engine-choice.6693/

He says in answer to a question "Great questions, I wish I knew the answer to those. The Si 1.5T motor could have a VTC + VTEC head like the K20C1 Type R does, and it might have different internals, but again I'm just not sure. The only thing I know is I have heard from very reliable sources that the current 1.5T motor has been "durability" tested at 300 hp. Specifically what that means is up for debate. My take on that is that it means the 1.5T motor has been driven hard for a prolonged time at 300 hp and did not fail or degrade"

The quote just says HP and doesn't specify it at the wheels or the crank. It depends on who this reliable source is as well since it's never actually said. If it's a tuner, I'd still take the word with a grain of salt. If it's from Honda I'd trust it more but also assume it was tested to 300 HP at the crank which would be about 270 at the wheels.

Honda_RacerX · Aug 15, 2019

The whole "Honda has tested the Si engine to handle 300hp" claim has never been substantiated. It just sounds good, therefore over the last 2 years it kept spreading around like it was a fact.

Nobody from Honda has ever said that. That shit just gives unexperienced Si owners false hope that they can push this engine way beyond its limits.

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

tinyman392 said:
The quote just says HP and doesn't specify it at the wheels or the crank. It depends on who this reliable source is as well since it's never actually said. If it's a tuner, I'd still take the word with a grain of salt. If it's from Honda I'd trust it more but also assume it was tested to 300 HP at the crank which would be about 270 at the wheels.

I accidentally put in the "w" out of habit. I don't know if it was wheel or Crank

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

Honda_RacerX said:
The whole "Honda has tested the Si engine to handle 300hp" claim has never been substantiated. It just sounds good, therefore over the last 2 years it kept spreading around like it was a fact.

Nobody from Honda has ever said that. That shit just gives unexperienced Si owners false hope that they can push this engine way beyond its limits.

I will agree with you that inexperienced owners are pushing their engines more than they should. As far as the 300hp claims, that did not just come out of thin air, but besides the point, no one should be pushing this engine at 300 HP, and I will agree with you there as well

2tone · Aug 15, 2019

I’ve seen it said before but the whole “durability tested to 300hp” always seemed kinda odd to me. What mods did they use to make 300hp? How exactly was it tested etc and no one seems to have any real info on the claim. It’s a very meaningless claim in my opinion. Regardless I agree with @amirza786 . There seems to be tons of modded civics with no issues and only a couple with blown engines. This seems to be the first one that doesn’t have obvious abuse or a clear reason as to why. I’ve seen tons of people on IG with tsp stage 2 or custom tunes racing in Mexico on the daily. I personally am custom tuned on FBO E37 and have no worries at all since I barely ever race and I do my best to keep good habits for my cars health. Been modded/tuned since 5k, currently about to hit 50k. I believe the OP never checked any data on his car so there may have been clear indication that something was off, fuel trims, kcon, etc. Maybe an injector was starting to clog but op never saw his trims getting lean. Maybe he was running lean ever since getting the intake and tune. I think @bahndrvr had an MAP intake and tune and said the trims were still off... I think. Nothing against MAP I love what they do for the 10th gen community and I personally use their intake but I got dyno tuned hours after I put it on. I have yet to see anything that tells me I should worry about my cars longevity, so anyone on stage 1 or a basemap should not be worried at all in my opinion.

Design · Aug 15, 2019

joshhjackson2112 said:
How much would it cost to build up the SI motor a bit with stronger rods? I do not see much conversation on people doing this? Seems like the most common "blown motor" is from the rods bending and breaking. Is it incredibly expensive to get someone in there to replace these? I saw a video of Eman taking apart the Si engine. It took him like 30 minutes or less to get to the rods themselves. Granted the engine was not inside the car but still......seems like a day or two job. Maybe I am way off, what do I know. I just see a problem but nobody really trying to fix it before disaster strikes. I am starting the think I should add "install stronger rods" into my mods to do list. Possibly shortly after W1 Turbo and custom tune. Or should I just try to find a used SI motor and build it up on the side? I hate these threads. They make me think this fate is as inevitable as clutch slippage. I shouldn't be scared because I respect my car and dont toy around with tuner options. I use TSP Stage 1 and dont fuck with anti lag or anything. Thoughts on this? Am I getting too paranoid over nothing? I know there is always "a chance" this can happen but it seems like the probability is increasing.....

I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest the rods are consistently problematic. A conservative tune and common sense driving habits can mitigate many of the pitfalls we see in these type of threads.

This motor has been reportedly load tested by Honda up to 300 CHP. IMHO, keeping midrange torque comparatively low is key in keeping the rods healthy. TSP and MAP both run considerable midrange torque on their maps. But as long as the user isn't constantly going WOT under 3K RPMs, I feel they are more than safe for daily use.

YMMV.

EDIT: With regards to Honda's endurance testing, I'd imagine this was measured at the crank. My understanding is that testing was done on the block/internals only.

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

2tone said:
I’ve seen it said before but the whole “durability tested to 300hp” always seemed kinda odd to me. What mods did they use to make 300hp? How exactly was it tested etc and no one seems to have any real info on the claim. It’s a very meaningless claim in my opinion. Regardless I agree with @amirza786 . There seems to be tons of modded civics with no issues and only a couple with blown engines. This seems to be the first one that doesn’t have obvious abuse or a clear reason as to why. I’ve seen tons of people on IG with tsp stage 2 or custom tunes racing in Mexico on the daily. I personally am custom tuned on FBO E37 and have no worries at all since I barely ever race and I do my best to keep good habits for my cars health. Been modded/tuned since 5k, currently about to hit 50k. I believe the OP never checked any data on his car so there may have been clear indication that something was off, fuel trims, kcon, etc. Maybe an injector was starting to clog but op never saw his trims getting lean. Maybe he was running lean ever since getting the intake and tune. I think @bahndrvr had an MAP intake and tune and said the trims were still off... I think. Nothing against MAP I love what they do for the 10th gen community and I personally use their intake but I got dyno tuned hours after I put it on. I have yet to see anything that tells me I should worry about my cars longevity, so anyone on stage 1 or a basemap should not be worried at all in my opinion.

Well, the 300 hp durability testing shall remain a mystery until someone finds the technical documentation from Honda. With that said, Eman did 25K on his 400WHP Si, the tear down which is on youtube showed no significant signs of wear, and I am pretty sure true to his word he went hard on his engine. Again, I don't advocate anyone tuning their engines to 300 or 400 hp, I say leave that to the experts

Design · Aug 15, 2019

Honda_RacerX said:
The whole "Honda has tested the Si engine to handle 300hp" claim has never been substantiated. It just sounds good, therefore over the last 2 years it kept spreading around like it was a fact.

Nobody from Honda has ever said that. That shit just gives unexperienced Si owners false hope that they can push this engine way beyond its limits.

This comes from Doug at Hondata, and my own conversations with a PM at Torrance. Doug's observations hold significant weight due to their partnership with HPD.

Take it for what it's worth...

Gotch · Aug 15, 2019

Most manufacturers do durability and QC checks during engine manufacturing. It is most definitely done during design and certification stage. Yes, these include destructive tests, but results are closely guarded. Even if we had an enthusiast on here that worked in the QC testing department at Honda, they wouldn’t be able to give numbers. I have personal experience in this regard with one of the big 3. It was 2 decades ago but testing procedures are basically the same. They run the shit out of the motors to say the least. What needs to be said is that these tests are under STOCK conditions once engines are certified and in mass production.

amirza786 · Aug 15, 2019

Design said:
This comes from Doug at Hondata, and my own conversations with a PM at Torrance. Doug's observations hold significant weight due to their partnership with HPD.

Take it for what it's worth...

I was just in Torrance last week and passed by Honda's corp headquarters (It's huge). Next time I'm in town I'm going to storm into their building and demand they give me a copy of their endurance testing technical documentation, dammit!

ne0guri · Aug 15, 2019

2tone said:
I believe the OP never checked any data on his car so there may have been clear indication that something was off, fuel trims, kcon, etc. Maybe an injector was starting to clog but op never saw his trims getting lean. Maybe he was running lean ever since getting the intake and tune.

This ^

That’s why I’m glad I ended up getting the V2. TSP - Corey convinced me that the dongle version has issues with its Bluetooth connection to Tunerview. Seems irresponsible to be going crazy with mods without checking real time data.

Gotch · Aug 15, 2019

V2 is the way to go!

Engine just blew!!

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