djhartm
Senior Member
- First Name
- Dave
- Joined
- May 20, 2019
- Threads
- 21
- Messages
- 169
- Reaction score
- 151
- Location
- Raleigh
- Vehicle(s)
- 2019 Civic Type-R
- Thread starter
- #1
Hi folks, I picked up a 2019 after reading all the praise from automotive journalists and particularly it's stellar performance in last year's Lightning Lap @ VIR.
I am an MSF certified Level II high-performance driving instructor and instruct for Porsche, BMW, Audi, and many other clubs. I have thousands of laps on my home track at VIR, and enjoy teaching students how to become better drivers at speed.
Since 2013, I have been tracking modified Corvettes, starting with a 2005 C6 Z51, then a 2015 C7 Z51, and currently own a 2018 Z06 Z07.
Last October I spun the car and had a hard hit in T6 at VIR. The car is being repaired, but it has been a long drawn-out event dealing with insurance and getting the car track-ready again.
I wanted to get something different to play with while waiting for my Z06, and I was looking at new a new Miata RF and the Type-R. Both cars are pretty hard to find (a club Miata with the Brembo is almost impossible), but nobody would deal on a Miata, and the configuration I wanted was too difficult to locate. So I jumped on a great deal on a Rallye Red.
I picked the car up in VA and that weekend I took it to my shop at VIR (shout out to Quantum Speedworks), and all we did was put Castrol SRF in the brake lines before instructing with NASA for Hyperfest that weekend.
In my Z06, I can turn consistent 2:06's on VIR full on Cup 2 DOTs; fast, but not insanely so.
Impressions:
Pluses:
Phenomenal chassis. In R+ mode, this car is sweetheart on a racetrack. It has near telepathic steering with great feel and control. Mid-corner adjustments are no sweat, and the car handles transitions with ease. Not having driven a relatively high HP FWD car in a long, long time, I was a bit nervous about the rear end coming around, and as I drove more aggressively, I could feel stability control coming on more and more, especially under hard braking with degrees in the wheel. Nothing disconcerting, but definitely moving, i.e. trail braking into T16 (Hogpen). I am aggressive on curbing and was happy to find the Type-R gobbled up gators including FIA without drama.
The car was playful to drive vs the Z06 which is so fast, it requires you to always be on your A-game. For my last sessions on day 2, I turned off stability control, and what was very good, became quite special. The car slides predictably, and when the rear end does get loose, it does so in a very non-threatening manner. No dark basement fears of throttle snap oversteer.
Minuses:
#1 -> the Brembo brakes are not up to serious track work. Specifically, the pad selection overheats and then dumps material on the rotors. Braking started to go off in later sessions as I increased entry speeds and pushed braking points back. Nothing scary, but the pads let me know they had had enough. Granted it was in the mid-90's, but I was genuinely disappointed that I could not even threshold brake in later sessions. My C7's had phenomenal Brembo OE brakes with pads that did not overheat on a car that weighed quite a bit more. It is disappointing that for all the track-ready hype, Honda spec'd a pad more suited to aggressive street driving. Once these are gone, I will be looking into Carbotech or Hawk pads. For novice and intermediate drivers, the stock front pads are probably fine. Advanced drivers will benefit from track-orientated pads. I did not detect any line squish, but with more aggressive pads, steel lines would likely also add to the braking feel and control.
So much material had been shed onto the front rotors that the car developed a noticeable shudder under braking with an audible grinding noise. No damage to the rotors, and plenty of pad material left, just lots bound to the rotors that will need to come off during the next track outing. Honda should address this by providing front pads more suited to what the car is capable of. Just to ensure that there was no damage, I took the car to my local Honda dealer, who incredulously told me the brakes had been 'ruined due to abuse' and they would be happy to price out new rotors and pads. LOL Honda needs to educate their techs on this car. I opened a case with Honda regarding this.
#2, never go out with less than half a tank. The car threw a bunch of codes and went into limp mode. I had to pull off track because of the danger involved in the speed disparity. This is apparently a common issue and it makes me wonder about the fuel pickup design for a car that should be capable of providing fuel under high G-loads.
#3 Tires. The Contis are not an aggressive track tire, and the fronts pushed quite a bit. I struggled with trying to find grip by lowering pressures, but then the tires rolled too much on the sidewalls, and handling suffered, The huge tread grooves on the tires and 240 treadwear rating really limit the car's grip and capability around the track
#4 No TPMS readings and a very hokey 'stopwatch' function. Having to gauge tires at the end of a session seems pretty out of line for a car of this price range. The stopwatch and timing capabilities are incredibly inadequate.
#5 This car runs very hot. I noticed power dropping off and the temp gauge hitting 3/4 of the way up the display. While I never went into a temp-caused limp mode, this car could definitely use some cooling enhancements. I pulled the gasket at the top of the firewall to allow more airflow, and also added Water Wetter, but not sure how effecting they will be at lowering temps.
#7 4th to 5th throws. I kept hitting 3rd unless I really slowed my shifting down and consciously thought about pressing the shifter to the right. There's something about this throw that isn't quite right. Perhaps it will get better as miles accrue,
It is an odd cross between a momentum car and a HP car. Obviously the car doesn't have 650 lb of torque like a Z06, so there were some corners like coming out of T10 at 4k+ RPM where the car felt flat. 5th was probably too high of a gear to be in, so I have to play and experiment more to find optimal gearing in certain sections of the track.
Other niggles - no sunroof, and no power driver's seat - come-on. The car is already 3100+ lbs. Who cares what another 30 lbs would add at that point. I'd much rather have those pleasantries vs a tenth of a second in lap time. Exhaust note, yeah we all know about that. But better quiet than sounding like a fart-can ricer.
Overall I am very happy with my purchase and believe the Type-R is a fun, capable platform, that with a few minor tweaks, will become a very capable track car. My corner speeds were approaching those of my Z06 after one weekend with this car, so that is an impressive indicator of just how capable this car's platform is. My last session was spent playing with another instructor in a 3-series with r-comps and suspension mods; he gave me a point by on the last lap.
Terminal velocity on the back straight was 130 vs 161 in my Z06. Front straight saw a tick north of 125 vs 150.
I may play with camber on the front, but I'm not sure how much you can really get by removing the stock pins. I'm looking to keep this car essentially stock, whereas my Z06 is my highly modified track car.
I am an MSF certified Level II high-performance driving instructor and instruct for Porsche, BMW, Audi, and many other clubs. I have thousands of laps on my home track at VIR, and enjoy teaching students how to become better drivers at speed.
Since 2013, I have been tracking modified Corvettes, starting with a 2005 C6 Z51, then a 2015 C7 Z51, and currently own a 2018 Z06 Z07.
Last October I spun the car and had a hard hit in T6 at VIR. The car is being repaired, but it has been a long drawn-out event dealing with insurance and getting the car track-ready again.
I wanted to get something different to play with while waiting for my Z06, and I was looking at new a new Miata RF and the Type-R. Both cars are pretty hard to find (a club Miata with the Brembo is almost impossible), but nobody would deal on a Miata, and the configuration I wanted was too difficult to locate. So I jumped on a great deal on a Rallye Red.
I picked the car up in VA and that weekend I took it to my shop at VIR (shout out to Quantum Speedworks), and all we did was put Castrol SRF in the brake lines before instructing with NASA for Hyperfest that weekend.
In my Z06, I can turn consistent 2:06's on VIR full on Cup 2 DOTs; fast, but not insanely so.
Impressions:
Pluses:
Phenomenal chassis. In R+ mode, this car is sweetheart on a racetrack. It has near telepathic steering with great feel and control. Mid-corner adjustments are no sweat, and the car handles transitions with ease. Not having driven a relatively high HP FWD car in a long, long time, I was a bit nervous about the rear end coming around, and as I drove more aggressively, I could feel stability control coming on more and more, especially under hard braking with degrees in the wheel. Nothing disconcerting, but definitely moving, i.e. trail braking into T16 (Hogpen). I am aggressive on curbing and was happy to find the Type-R gobbled up gators including FIA without drama.
The car was playful to drive vs the Z06 which is so fast, it requires you to always be on your A-game. For my last sessions on day 2, I turned off stability control, and what was very good, became quite special. The car slides predictably, and when the rear end does get loose, it does so in a very non-threatening manner. No dark basement fears of throttle snap oversteer.
Minuses:
#1 -> the Brembo brakes are not up to serious track work. Specifically, the pad selection overheats and then dumps material on the rotors. Braking started to go off in later sessions as I increased entry speeds and pushed braking points back. Nothing scary, but the pads let me know they had had enough. Granted it was in the mid-90's, but I was genuinely disappointed that I could not even threshold brake in later sessions. My C7's had phenomenal Brembo OE brakes with pads that did not overheat on a car that weighed quite a bit more. It is disappointing that for all the track-ready hype, Honda spec'd a pad more suited to aggressive street driving. Once these are gone, I will be looking into Carbotech or Hawk pads. For novice and intermediate drivers, the stock front pads are probably fine. Advanced drivers will benefit from track-orientated pads. I did not detect any line squish, but with more aggressive pads, steel lines would likely also add to the braking feel and control.
So much material had been shed onto the front rotors that the car developed a noticeable shudder under braking with an audible grinding noise. No damage to the rotors, and plenty of pad material left, just lots bound to the rotors that will need to come off during the next track outing. Honda should address this by providing front pads more suited to what the car is capable of. Just to ensure that there was no damage, I took the car to my local Honda dealer, who incredulously told me the brakes had been 'ruined due to abuse' and they would be happy to price out new rotors and pads. LOL Honda needs to educate their techs on this car. I opened a case with Honda regarding this.
#2, never go out with less than half a tank. The car threw a bunch of codes and went into limp mode. I had to pull off track because of the danger involved in the speed disparity. This is apparently a common issue and it makes me wonder about the fuel pickup design for a car that should be capable of providing fuel under high G-loads.
#3 Tires. The Contis are not an aggressive track tire, and the fronts pushed quite a bit. I struggled with trying to find grip by lowering pressures, but then the tires rolled too much on the sidewalls, and handling suffered, The huge tread grooves on the tires and 240 treadwear rating really limit the car's grip and capability around the track
#4 No TPMS readings and a very hokey 'stopwatch' function. Having to gauge tires at the end of a session seems pretty out of line for a car of this price range. The stopwatch and timing capabilities are incredibly inadequate.
#5 This car runs very hot. I noticed power dropping off and the temp gauge hitting 3/4 of the way up the display. While I never went into a temp-caused limp mode, this car could definitely use some cooling enhancements. I pulled the gasket at the top of the firewall to allow more airflow, and also added Water Wetter, but not sure how effecting they will be at lowering temps.
#7 4th to 5th throws. I kept hitting 3rd unless I really slowed my shifting down and consciously thought about pressing the shifter to the right. There's something about this throw that isn't quite right. Perhaps it will get better as miles accrue,
It is an odd cross between a momentum car and a HP car. Obviously the car doesn't have 650 lb of torque like a Z06, so there were some corners like coming out of T10 at 4k+ RPM where the car felt flat. 5th was probably too high of a gear to be in, so I have to play and experiment more to find optimal gearing in certain sections of the track.
Other niggles - no sunroof, and no power driver's seat - come-on. The car is already 3100+ lbs. Who cares what another 30 lbs would add at that point. I'd much rather have those pleasantries vs a tenth of a second in lap time. Exhaust note, yeah we all know about that. But better quiet than sounding like a fart-can ricer.
Overall I am very happy with my purchase and believe the Type-R is a fun, capable platform, that with a few minor tweaks, will become a very capable track car. My corner speeds were approaching those of my Z06 after one weekend with this car, so that is an impressive indicator of just how capable this car's platform is. My last session was spent playing with another instructor in a 3-series with r-comps and suspension mods; he gave me a point by on the last lap.
Terminal velocity on the back straight was 130 vs 161 in my Z06. Front straight saw a tick north of 125 vs 150.
I may play with camber on the front, but I'm not sure how much you can really get by removing the stock pins. I'm looking to keep this car essentially stock, whereas my Z06 is my highly modified track car.
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