CTR Rev Matching and Emissions Issues w/Check Engine light.

djhartm said:

I've gotten this damn issue twice now and it has cost me track time.

Each time the tank got below 1/4 full and the engine sputtered during high G turns.

Then loss of power, then the 3 warning messages.

The first time were able to clear them by using an OBDII reader and disconnecting the battery.

Not this time. I lost two track sessions and had to drive home with zero boost.

Burned-up the OEM front brake pads last week at the track (disintegrated after 1 weekend), and this weekend both front tires delaminated.

The Conti tires are junk for serious track use.

The car is a 1 month 2019 old with 1200 miles on it.

This car is NOT track ready!

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It never was “track ready”. The track is where we prove things. Type R’s were made for the street. If you want a CTR for the track, you’ll need to drop another $15,000 dollars into it. You’ve barely broken the car in. My worst fear for you is that you are going to blow the engine and be out 30 grand.

I disagree.

This car should be able to complete HPDE events at instructor level paces without disintegrating brake pads, delaminating tires, and going into CPU meltdowns from fuel starvation in high-G turns with more than a quarter tank of fuel remaining.

djhartm said:

I disagree.

This car should be able to complete HPDE events at instructor level paces without disintegrating brake pads, delaminating tires, and going into CPU meltdowns from fuel starvation in high-G turns with more than a quarter tank of fuel remaining.

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EXACTLY. Couldn’t have said it better myself.....it “should” be track ready. Many of us bought into the Type R franchise after seeing the Nurburgring results. This is it! The track champion! Me wants one.

Then the corporate execs stepped in, fearing public backlash, that we would blazing up and down highways, might hurt the brand. It’s not only Honda. All automakers give us the tone downed version. NERFED! Nobody is saying you can’t track this car. By all means, step on the gas and go fast. You just won’t be successful running OEM tune and OEM parts. I have yet to track my car and I know I want to. I also know that it is NOT ready. Just changed the intercooler and exhaust. Still do NOT have a racing radiator or ECU tune. The OEM suspension is going to get smashed once I track it. Haven’t decided on the coilovers yet.

The worst part is the bonnet. You need to swap out the bonnet with a Varis bonnet that lets that heat out.

The truth is we did not get the Nurburgring Edition of this car. The DNA is there. The K20C engine is there. You need to drop cold hard cash to make sure your CTR is ready for the thrashing you are giving it.

There is hope for you. I believe in the K20C engine otherwise I would not have bought the car. I also believe that Honda skimped out on everything else so they make money. Drop the extra $20,000. You’ll get the car where you want it to be. Hopefully not on a flatbed.

you have to realize one important thing regarding cooling is that the nurburgring is a MUCH faster track than what most of us run here.

it was also probably ran at like early mornings when the ambient temps aren't as high.

I also track a 2018 Z06, Z07 that is bone stock other than SRF & steel lines.

ZERO issues after a year of instructor thrashing at VIR.

This is not the first year CTR - Honda has had plenty of time to address birthing issues.

The rev match/emissions limp mode is a wide-spread problem that is dangerous when it occurs on track.

Thankfully both times it occurred I did not have someone riding my ass.

I thought I did sufficient research before buying this car but somehow missed this red flag.

Honda is still troubleshooting the issue.They think there is an issue with the boost controller.

We noticed the wastgate actuator moving in and out yesterday when we cleared the ODBII codes.

Continental is offering a 40% discount off the replacement cost of the tires due to delamination.

I spoke to a Michelin race tech today about pressure. These FWD cars require higher pressure than RWD/AWD cars and grip is compromised as you must balance rollover. More camber is the answer. He also suggested increasing rear pressure to help the car rotate more easily, which I will play with once I get the car back.

Interestingly I saw an identical Rallye Red car at Discount Tire today. The bozo had a gazillion 'race' stickers on the car and was going on about all the HP he was making.

I asked if he had ever had the car out on a road course and he said 'no'.

djhartm said:

Honda is still troubleshooting the issue.They think there is an issue with the boost controller.

We noticed the wastgate actuator moving in and out yesterday when we cleared the ODBII codes.

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There's no separate "boost controller" - this functionality is built into the ECM which directly drives the stepper motor in the wastegate actuator.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the wastegate actuator moving - that may be a normal side effect of the actuator simply performing a self-check or limit learn following a code clear.

Oh, and I couldn't help but notice your resemblance to Fox Mulder.

zroger73 said:

There's no separate "boost controller" - this functionality is built into the ECM which directly drives the stepper motor in the wastegate actuator.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the wastegate actuator moving - that may be a normal side effect of the actuator simply performing a self-check or limit learn following a code clear.

Oh, and I couldn't help but notice your resemblance to Fox Mulder.

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End of day 2 in mid 80 degree weather after jumping in and out of student cars all day long.

Thanks I think you are absolutely correct; I may have garbled the message from the SA.

I really need to get more front end grip.

The two good Contis still have good tread, so rather than spend $1600 on Cup 2, what I may try is the camber pin removal trick.

BTW, the XP8 pads up front worked fabulously.

I'm getting a lot of side-to side/yaw motion under threshold braking with VSA 'completely' disabled. Need to have an alignment done.

djhartm said:

I'm getting a lot of side-to side motion under threshold braking with VSA 'completely' disabled. Need to have an alignment done.

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Are you "completely disabling" VSA by entering the "VSA maintenance mode" (using the parking brake and brake pedal)? If so, be aware that this only disables the stability assist and traction control functions. ABS continues to function normally.

zroger73 said:

Are you "completely disabling" VSA by entering the "VSA maintenance mode" (using the parking brake and brake pedal)? If so, be aware that this only disables the stability assist and traction control functions. ABS continues to function normally.

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Per the OM, I am pressing the VSA button in R+ mode and holding it for 3 seconds until it beeps and the 'VSA Disabled' (or something to that effect) messaged is displayed.

Just pressing the VSA button, I seemed to be still getting throttle modulation on track out, and rear braking mid-corner and on corner entry.

Ah, yes - that accomplishes the same thing as "VSA maintenance mode" on non-Civic Type R Hondas. ABS is still operational, but I'm not sure whether AHA (Agile Handling Assist - the feature that brakes the wheels on one side of the vehicle to help create a yaw moment during corners) is still active or not. The service information doesn't specifically say one way or another, but hints that AHA is a separate function from VSA like the ABS is.

I wonder if what you're experiencing is due to ABS and AHA still working. I guess you could pull a fuse to truly disable all brake-based functions, but you'd probably have a lot of codes to clear afterwards.

zroger73 said:

Ah, yes - that accomplishes the same thing as "VSA maintenance mode" on non-Civic Type R Hondas. ABS is still operational, but I'm not sure whether AHA (Agile Handling Assist - the feature that brakes the wheels on one side of the vehicle to help create a yaw moment during corners) is still active or not. The service information doesn't specifically say one way or another, but hints that AHA is a separate function from VSA like the ABS is.

In wonder if what you're experiencing is due to ABS and AHA still working. I guess you could pull a fuse to truly disable all brake-based functions, but you'd probably have a lot of codes to clear afterwards.

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I don't like codes - I have too many already.

It could just be that the XP8 pads have a higher friction coefficient than the OEM fronts, and there is an imbalance in the brake pressure distribution.

Eventually the rears will be replaced and if I go with stickier tires, I may go to an XP12/10 setup.

I just make sure I have the car straight before I go into threshold braking, which is good practice anyway.

If I get my car back I will be instructing for the National Corvette Museum at VIR this Monday & Tuesday, so I can play with some more settings. I've only had it a month.

>>>UPDATE<<<

Car is allegedly fixed. Honda found a loose electrical connector to the wastegate servo (I think) that was pulled too tight and had pulled the pins out of the socket enough to provide erratic sensor data. He said they re-routed the wiring to give it more slack and fixed the pins in the connector.

<WHEW>

Well add my 2019 ctr. Got the rev match emissions light taking off from a stop sign. What sucks is I just got done putting a prl dp fp and intercooler, hondata tune, legamax exhaust, guess I’ll call the dealership see if they’ll look at it. Had to drive 6 hours to get this guy in black for not over sticker price, so hopefully local guy understands. I know the owners wife has a white one, 2300 miles on mine. Wish me luck, I’ll keep ya’ll posted

SpinRush said:

It never was “track ready”. The track is where we prove things. Type R’s were made for the street. If you want a CTR for the track, you’ll need to drop another $15,000 dollars into it. You’ve barely broken the car in. My worst fear for you is that you are going to blow the engine and be out 30 grand.

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Seems to me should drive with more then a quarter tank then? but seriously. Have dealer check the turbo harness. It causes all thos same issues. They had to be replaced on the 17s and some 18s. But tracking the car might still wear the wires. Its two little pins that cause the whole car to act funny and give system warnings.

Harlaquin said:

Seems to me should drive with more then a quarter tank then? but seriously. Have dealer check the turbo harness. It causes all thos same issues. They had to be replaced on the 17s and some 18s. But tracking the car might still wear the wires. Its two little pins that cause the whole car to act funny and give system warnings.

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I got these messages again last Sunday @ VIR which put the car in limp mode - very dangerous on track. I forgot to check the fuel level and went out with <half a tank.

Had to pull off track and drive back to the pits through the back door.

That was my fault for not going out with more than a half tank. This car's fuel pickup is not designed for track duty.

A simple OBDII cleared these pesky codes.

The dealer did find loose pins in the wiring harness (boost controller coupling IIRC), which were causing the previous codes which would not clear.

That being said, the XP8's have been working great, and I have been staving off tire roll/damage by running pressure higher than what is stated cold. I forgo grip but better than having the tires disintegrate.

I've instructed at 4 HPDE events since picking her up on 5/17, so she's been working hard.