Si Review: Spec Inc Stage 3 Clutch w/Steel SMF

BoostedDreams

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Maybe I'm misunderstanding something:

Based on what I've seen, after spec released thier clutch and flywheel people started having lockout problems at higher rpms. Eventually spec figured out that the stock cmc could not handle the kit and started offering the wildwood cmc to the initial buyers at a reduced cost and ONLY if you reach out to them. Anyone who purchased this after the initial sales were to pay the full price.
If you have a spec clutch and have the problem with lockout, then you’re suppose to get the discounted price by reaching out to them. Period. What’s so confusing?
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jayee

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If you have a spec clutch and have the problem with lockout, then you’re suppose to get the discounted price by reaching out to them. Period. What’s so confusing?
It is in fact is very confusing. AFAIK Spec only sells this clutch kit through a partnership with TSP on their site. They have not made the lockout issue with stock cmc public knowledge and the listings on TSP’s site make no reference to the need for one. In order for a potential buyer to even know about this you need to start researching and get 3rd hand info from other people. I have seen posts from people disgruntled from having to buy the $200+ cmc which either means they didn’t know that they need to specifically reach out to spec to get discounted or that spec is no longer discounting it.

The right (and easy) thing to do is to note on the listing that it is recommended to upgrade the cmc and offer a bundle with the reduced pricing, if it still exists.

I’m getting the feeling that you are being argumentative because you feel like I’m attacking a product you personally use. I have no doubt that the spec clutch is amazing from the feedback of people who are running it. This whole thing boils down to a lack of communication from the manufacturer. If you have proof that Spec will sell you the discounted cmc even if you purchase the clutch TODAY please share it. And like I said, if they do offer it then why not sell it in a bundle upfront instead of potentially pissing off customers who don’t know that they need it.
 

BoostedDreams

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It is in fact is very confusing. AFAIK Spec only sells this clutch kit through a partnership with TSP on their site. They have not made the lockout issue with stock cmc public knowledge and the listings on TSP’s site make no reference to the need for one. In order for a potential buyer to even know about this you need to start researching and get 3rd hand info from other people. I have seen posts from people disgruntled from having to buy the $200+ cmc which either means they didn’t know that they need to specifically reach out to spec to get discounted or that spec is no longer discounting it.

The right (and easy) thing to do is to note on the listing that it is recommended to upgrade the cmc and offer a bundle with the reduced pricing, if it still exists.

I’m getting the feeling that you are being argumentative because you feel like I’m attacking a product you personally use. I have no doubt that the spec clutch is amazing from the feedback of people who are running it. This whole thing boils down to a lack of communication from the manufacturer. If you have proof that Spec will sell you the discounted cmc even if you purchase the clutch TODAY please share it. And like I said, if they do offer it then why not sell it in a bundle upfront instead of potentially pissing off customers who don’t know that they need it.
I agree with you 100%. I thought you were insinuating that they will not offer the discounted rate to anyone other than the initial purchasers.
I also think two step performance should add that into their notes and collaborate it with spec at a discounted rate. I was one of those very frustrated customers and chased this problem and spend way more money than I ought to have for a product that should have been tested more thoroughly.
It should be made transparent that there may be shifting difficulties without upgrading the CMC etc
Easiest way to verify they will honor the discount would be to give them a call directly .
 

LilToTo17

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All correct except the cmc upgrade is $120 from spec if you have purchased their clutch and flywheel
This is generally why we don't list prices of parts like these lol
 

Baseline_Si

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PREFACE
Alright, so I'm going to be clear up-front and say that I have not tested or felt any other clutches available for the 10th Gen outside of the OEM stock clutch. I do not have the hands-on experience with others to compare my thoughts on other clutches available. So I will be comparing Stock vs. Spec Stage 3. If I drive another car with a different aftermarket clutch, I will most definitely add it here.

With that out of the way, here's a quick break down of what I have done to my 2018 Si Coupe performance-wise;
  • Ktuner v1.2
  • TwoStep Performance KTuner Flex-Fuel Kit
  • TwoStep Performance Stage 2 Tune
  • PRL Cobra Cold Air Intake w/Race MAF
  • PRL Catless Downpipe & Frontpipe Combo
  • Muffler Delete w/Stock Resonator
I bought my car in July 2018 with 7 miles on the odometer. It had never been test-driven and never did any driving outside of the Honda factory test course and unloading from the trailer. The clutch started slipping after I had the KTuner w/TSP Stage 1 Tune and PRL Cobra CAI. Once I tossed in Flex-Fuel, the stock clutch slipped more than this dude...

giphy.gif


Skipping all the details on my clutch research, I opted to go with the Spec Inc. Stage 3 with a Steel Single-Mass Flywheel. I went with steel over aluminum because I wanted the revs to drop faster and did not want to run the risk of warping often seen with aluminum FWs. I ordered the clutch January 8th 2019 from @Two Step Performance and it arrived 3 weeks later. I was told by the awesome Cory @ TSP that Spec Inc. was waiting on more material for the pressure plate. Now, on to the install.


INSTALL
Now, I work on a lot of Hondas. I'm quite familiar with them and I'm not afraid to do the work myself when it comes to working on them. However, I opted to pay someone to install the clutch. I took it over to JuJu Built Engineered Performance in Upland, CA as they came highly recommended. First and foremost, if you're in SoCal and need your clutch done, take it to George. Dude definitely knows what he's doing and did an amazing job.

After seeing the amount of work involved to drop the sub-frame and put it back in, I'm glad I paid someone to do it. I would've been stuck in my driveway trying to do it. Well worth the money (which was quite cheap TBH). If someone offered to pay me double what they charged to install theirs, I would turn it down.

So with the install underway, everything was pretty straight-forward and went smoothly. Then we ran into our first set-back. The clutch alignment tool provided by Spec Inc. was the wrong size. According to the markings on the tool, it was meant for an Acura RSX. Luckily, George had a box full of alignment tools and was able to find the correct sized one. It's a small set-back, but if someone was doing this at home, that would've tossed a wrench in the whole operation.

Per recommendations from Spec, TwoStep Performance & PRL, I had the Clutch-Delay Valve (CDV) removed. Now, I know the great and almighty E-Man says it's bad for the transmission and blah blah blah. If the above three companies recommend it, I'm going to do it.

With the flywheel/clutch combo installed and CDV removed, they put Humpty Dumpty back together again.


INITIAL THOUGHTS
George from JuJu took the car around the block a couple times to give the computer a chance to reset and clear any codes. Everything settled down and my first concern was answered. I did NOT have a CEL due to the flywheel change. George recommended NOT disable the misfire detection and it came to be that I didn't even have to. +1 in my book.

George revved the car in front of me and wow! The revs dropped faster than Hans Gruber at Nakatomi Plaza!

hans-gruber3.gif

Pictured: The best Christmas movie of all time.

I was super happy about that!

Driving the car, I immediately noticed how stiff the clutch was. For clarification, I did not adjust the clutch position in any way. I left it at the stock position. George recommended I try it like that before adjusting it. In it's current position, to disengage the clutch, I need to push the pedal to the floor. Once on the floor, I can easily change gears. However, if I lift even a millimeter off the floor, the clutch starts to grab. This process alone is a work out for my left leg. It's completely doable and I'm used to it from my Integra which has an Action Stage 3 6-Puck Sprung Clutch. I may adjust it a little bit though.

But as it stands, the clutch is stiffer and grabbier than Father Ted alone with an altar boy!

Jt6TDTsh.jpg

Source: Google Images

Once moving, the car felt great. It definitely had a good grip on the flywheel and she didn't slip one bit. I'm still within my break-in period, but I'm close to the end of it. I have been able to kind-of "get on it" and where the stock clutch used to slip, it no longer does. I'm finally able to feel the full power of my car with all the mods and man does it feel awesome!


INITIAL REVIEW
Now, down to the meat and potatoes.
  • Chatter - There's absolutely none. I'm not sure if it's because I'm deaf from years of listening to music or the fact that my car is pretty loud, but I can't hear any chatter.

  • CEL Codes - There's none. No errors for the flywheel, no misfire codes, nothing. I didn't have to touch a thing on my ECU.

  • High-RPM Lockout - Now, I'm still in my break-in period. But, I've already experience this. When doing a pull, I went to shift and the car would give me trouble shifting into the next gear. Normally, on the stock clutch, my transmission was "easy". I could slam into any gear with little-to-no resistance. With the new clutch, I feel I have to use extra force shifting gears.

    I'm not grinding at all, but it feels like I go to put it in gear and it pushes against me. I have tried other scenarios where I basically slam it into gear and it accepts it. But it doesn't feel like it used to. I will definitely have to spend more time with it and narrow it down.

    If it continues, I'll most-likely go the route of replacing the CMC with the modified CTR one that E-Man sells as I've heard it fixes this issue. Driving in normal conditions, I have zero issues shifting. It's simply at High-RPMs.


PRIMARY CONCLUSION
Overall, the clutch is awesome. I'm extremely happy with it and I'm content with my choice. It will take some more seat time to fully get it dialed in and a better view on it. But rest-assured, I will be back here to update my findings. If you got this far, I appreciate you!

giphy.gif

Pictured: Man who doesn't play himself.

Thank you and I hope this helps someone in their decision!

1ST UPDATE 02.10.19
After doing about 300 miles in the car with the clutch at it's original position, I decided to try and adjust it. My primary goal was to remove the High-RPM lockout I've been experiencing. An added bonus would be a slightly higher engagement point that would feel more natural.

I adjusted my clutch pedal by turning the U-Shaped connector about 3 full rotations to extend it out a little further. The result was a stock-like clutch engagement point. Instead of it being basically on the floor, it is now where the stock clutch was. It's stiff still, but in a good way. It is in no way difficult to drive it this way. +1

After adjusting the clutch, I took the car out for a minor shakedown. So far, driving it is way easier and the shifting feels way smoother. Prior to the adjustment, the shifter felt like it took more force to go into gears. With the adjustment, it's back to stock feeling. A minor gripe has now been fixed. +1

High-RPM lockout............IS GONE! I was able to shift under WOT with ease. I did a couple of pulls and every time it went into gear without issue. Major gripe now fixed! +2

Overall, the adjustment was exactly what I needed to do. The car feels amazing now and I'm even happier with my purchase. I do have concerns about the master cylinder being over extended, but I barely adjusted the pedal and it appears to disengage and engage exactly where it needs to. Only time will tell.

:beer:

2ND UPDATE 02.26.19
There have been some discoveries and updates since my last post. I have officially put about 1,200 miles on the clutch and it is about as broken-in as it can get. Two weeks ago, I had the unpleasant privilege of driving in stop-and-go traffic with the vehicle. Aside from getting an incredible workout in my left leg, I was able to get through it without any issue. The next morning however, I noticed my pedal had softened quite a bit. I wasn't worried as I had read about this happening with this clutch before. Pedal goes from raging stiff to a semi overnight. This made the driving experience a lot more comfortable.

I had also spoken too soon in my previous update. The High-RPM lockout still exists. Anything above 5.8K RPM would not allow me to shift into 2nd or 3rd. When I noticed it, I didn't really have time to mess with it as I had to go to Europe for a week for work. Once I returned, I was at a friends house and decided to give him a ride. I did a nice little pull and 2nd gear locked me out. It sounded like a mis-shift and I was embarrassed as all hell. I had to explain to him this common issue with aftermarket clutches.

Fed up with the issue, I decided to adjust my clutch pedal once again yesterday. Here's a rough break-down of my pedal adjustment history:

(X is floor, Y is very top, E is engagement point).

Stock Clutch
X
-------------E-----Y

Spec Inc After Install
(No Adjustment, Results in lock-out)
X -------------E-----Y

Spec Adjustment #1
(Increased EP, Results in some lock-outs)
X ----------------E--Y

Spec Adjustment #2
(Decreased EP, No lockouts yet and Brake-Hold Works Again)
X ---------------E---Y

The adjustments are minor but there was quite a noticeable difference. On the 1st adjustment, I spun the U-Shaped Joint about 4-5 times to raise the engagement point. This drove alright but resulted in jerky take-offs and lockouts. Also, the brake-hold had issues properly engaging.

The second adjustment appears to be way smoother. I lowered the engagement point about 2 rotations and it made for a much smoother take-off and gear changes. So far (knock-on-wood), I have not had any lockouts. Even after taking a couple of trips to Mexico where GappleBees was serving people left and right. Most notably, the brake-hold is now functioning like it did stock. So I think I may have found the sweet spot. If this doesn't work, I may just contact E-Man about upgrading the CMC. Until then, I will continue to monitor and report back my findings. :thumbsup:
Is the clutch still holding on strong?
 
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NoKz

NoKz

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Is the clutch still holding on strong?
Hey @Baseline_Si, I still have the clutch in and she's still holding just as strong as ever. I've been using the Wilwood CMC with it and have had zero issues with High-RPM lockout. I also haven't experienced it slipping at all. My only current complaint is that sometimes, the pressure plate can over-extend, so when I go into reverse, there can be a little shudder. That's about it though.
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