PRL Motorsports 2017+ Honda Civic Type-R FK8 High Volume Intake System

thew23 said:

When does the pre-order sale end? Is there a set time or does it just depend on the amount of orders?

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As per usual, our pre-order will end once orders begin shipping around 8/1.

RIP my 12 pm order

I got an email from PRL today saying that my order is “In Que”. I dunno what that means but I’m stoked!

I just got an email as well that I’m on Que”, I guess it’s a good thing but also I received better news I believe we r getting limited edition covers for the first batch of orders

sweet got my in Que notice today as well

Great, just when I stopped checking in lol. I suppose I can be a potential buyer pending reviews.

Will only people who bought on the PRL website receive the free covers? What about through other vendors ?

JSmoothBui said:

Will only people who bought on the PRL website receive the free covers? What about through other vendors ?

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No worries, we will put these in the first 200 boxes that go out!

PRL Motorsports said:

Our first batch of 200 pre-orders for the FK8 2017+ Honda Civic Type-R Intakes are officially sold out within 24 hours upon release! We want to thank everyone for the overwhelming love and support. In an effort to show our appreciation to, all first batch pre-orders will receive a free limited edition Type-R Resevoir Cover. The next batch of pre-orders (all orders placed after 6/18) are expected to ship 9/12.

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Hell yea. Thank yall! PRL full bolt ons completed!

I was wondering - I know that PRL’s dyno charts have shown that their bolt ons increase power even on the factory tune. I have also read that since the ECU is torque based, it will target and achieve the factory power levels regardless of what bolt ons are added. I am trying to reconcile these two things - which statement is more accurate?

davemarco said:

I was wondering - I know that PRL’s dyno charts have shown that their bolt ons increase power even on the factory tune. I have also read that since the ECU is torque based, it will target and achieve the factory power levels regardless of what bolt ons are added. I am trying to reconcile these two things - which statement is more accurate?

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I have a possibly related question: how does the engine estimate torque output? Is it using some formula of air charge, fuel input, and the O2 reading? Depending on how it is estimated, perhaps certain boltons increase actual torque output unbeknownst to the ECU?

remc86007 said:

I have a possibly related question: how does the engine estimate torque output? Is it using some formula of air charge, fuel input, and the O2 reading? Depending on how it is estimated, perhaps certain boltons increase actual torque output unbeknownst to the ECU?

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I don't know specifically how the CTR ECU operates, but I can tell you this in general:

Torque is a direct result of cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure at a given RPM is primarily driven by charge mass inducted into the cylinder per stroke. So I am guessing that the ECU primarily looks at inlet charge density (and/or MAF, all related) and engine speed, then goes to a set of lookup tables to see what is expected torque at those values. It can then use its ability to fine-control the wastegate and the throttle to limit the mass flow to whatever the lookup table says is its safe limit defined by Honda at a given set of conditions.

There are probably even more fine-tune factors with timing, air fuel ratio, injection timing, etc, that may further trim to the target torque. It becomes a multi-dimensional tuning algorithm, they can be a bit of a bear to sort out exactly what is doing what, when it is doing it, why it is doing it, why it is doing one thing here and something different there, it keeps going. But I bet at its heart it is still primarily a mass-rate-per-firing-cycle algorithm.

Then there are likely even more safeguards, such as the well-known ignition retard that pulls timing when the air temps get above 100F or so. This is another safety algorithm that will further limit power. I don't care how much mass flow you have going into the engine, if you cut enough timing, it WILL kill the torque.



I would be curious to hear what someone that has seen really deeply into the ECU says it is actually doing.

davemarco said:

I was wondering - I know that PRL’s dyno charts have shown that their bolt ons increase power even on the factory tune. I have also read that since the ECU is torque based, it will target and achieve the factory power levels regardless of what bolt ons are added. I am trying to reconcile these two things - which statement is more accurate?

Click to expand...

remc86007 said:

I have a possibly related question: how does the engine estimate torque output? Is it using some formula of air charge, fuel input, and the O2 reading? Depending on how it is estimated, perhaps certain boltons increase actual torque output unbeknownst to the ECU?

Click to expand...

For what it's worth, our car's test settings are on @KTuner's basemaps; ie "stock," Stage 1 or Stage 2. We like to use the "stock" map, because we feel it provides realistic data for what the average customer can expect to experience. The average customer does not have a custom tune.

Yes, the factory ECU is somewhat torque-based. The ECU hunts for a target torque value, which is primarily dependent on target boost. In other words, the car will not overshoot stock/map-specific target boost levels (well actually it may slightly overshoot for a brief period of time, but the ECU is smart and corrects this very quickly, but it can make more power at the same or up to target boost levels due to increased efficiency. You may have noticed that some of our write-ups EXAMPLE LINK discuss how some modifications make the car want to overshoot target boost due to the increased efficiency, but the computer then pulls back wastegate duty for a brief period of time to properly compensate. This can be changed, though, with custom tuning. The beauty of using "stock" maps and/or basemaps is the fact that even greater gains can be expected with custom tuning to properly suite your vehicle.

As for how the ECU calculates torque, there are quite a few different tables involved that get a little tricky when trying to explain. Let's just be happy that these cars aren't extremely finicky like other torque-based ECUs.

PRL Motorsports said:

For what it's worth, our car's test settings are on @KTuner's basemaps; ie "stock," Stage 1 or Stage 2. We like to use the "stock" map, because we feel it provides realistic data for what the average customer can expect to experience. The average customer does not have a custom tune.

Yes, the factory ECU is somewhat torque-based. The ECU hunts for a target torque value, which is primarily dependent on target boost. In other words, the car will not overshoot stock/map-specific target boost levels (well actually it may slightly overshoot for a brief period of time, but the ECU is smart and corrects this very quickly, but it can make more power at the same or up to target boost levels due to increased efficiency. You may have noticed that some of our write-ups EXAMPLE LINK discuss how some modifications make the car want to overshoot target boost due to the increased efficiency, but the computer then pulls back wastegate duty for a brief period of time to properly compensate. This can be changed, though, with custom tuning. The beauty of using "stock" maps and/or basemaps is the fact that even greater gains can be expected with custom tuning to properly suite your vehicle.

As for how the ECU calculates torque, there are quite a few different tables involved that get a little tricky when trying to explain. Let's just be happy that these cars aren't extremely finicky like other torque-based ECUs.

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Thanks - great info here! So at the simplest level: would it be fair to say that if I am running on the factory tune, I will consistently make more power with bolt ons due to increased efficiency, and not just in the short time it takes for the ECU to adjust?

I'm totally going for a custom tune in the long term - just curious in the short term what to expect.

davemarco said:

Thanks - great info here! So at the simplest level: would it be fair to say that if I am running on the factory tune, I will consistently make more power with bolt ons due to increased efficiency, and not just in the short time it takes for the ECU to adjust?

I'm totally going for a custom tune in the long term - just curious in the short term what to expect.

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That is correct.