Offical "Si Dealer Naughty List" thread

Leetcivx said:

Lehigh Valley Honda (Allentown area of Pennsylvania)
Larry Bowman
here is the email:

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So essentially $30k for a Civic Si? That's completely insane wth

MutatedMango said:

So essentially $30k for a Civic Si? That's completely insane wth

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Yeah, i will never go back to that dealership again. i bought my 16 EX-T there, but after the Si markup i went to Hazleton Honda and got it under MSRP.

Leetcivx said:

Yeah, i will never go back to that dealership again. i bought my 16 EX-T there, but after the Si markup i went to Hazleton Honda and got it under MSRP.

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You're from Lehigh Valley? I'm from Eagleville haha

It's easy to become hostile towards dealers who advertise huge markups, low-ball your trade ins, or make ridiculously high offers or counteroffers new vehicles.

However, don't be so quick to write them off forever... I've personally walked out of many of these dealers over one purchase only to get the best deal from them on the next purchase and vice-versa.

Last year, my preferred Honda dealer where my neighbor is the GM lost an Accord sale to my closest dealer who advertises an additional $3,500 to the price of every new Honda on their lot.

You never know how or when a dealer will be hungry.

Personally, I see cars as a commodity - I couldn't care less where they're purchased from. Neither the showroom nor the staff makes any difference to me. I'm looking for the best price because I can take them anywhere for warranty service. If a "naughty" dealer sells me the car for the lowest price, I'll bring it to a "nice" dealer for service.

JDM_DOHC_SiR said:

OK here it is .... have at it
Please make sure to list the following.

1) Dealer and location.
2) Sales person.
3) Any email or data you can provide.
4) Price that they offered you that made you want to put them on "THE LIST"



Also great info as well of what and what not to say

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Best advantage. Tell them you will finance during negotiations. Once you work it down to a bottom sticker...and you both agree on price. Because dealer and bank makes money off of your finance. Tell the sales barney you have second thoughts on financing and you will pay it in cash!!! Boom winner chicken dinner. I pulled it off. In Cali I paid 25,250 out the door. Including taxes and fees.

Good Dealer post:

Got my 2018 Honda Civic Si brand new from Peter's Honda in Nashua, NH. I have owned Hondas my whole life and was getting tired of my very underwhelming 2012 Si when I talked to a sales guy during my visit to get an oil change. His name was Larry. He had another salesperson Alyssa assist also because he was juggling two customers at once. Long story short I had an absolutely fantastic experience there. I paid under MSRP for the vehicle and was treated with respect, which I really appreciated. I did also look at the TypeR, but it was marked up $7k over sticker and I wasn't comfortable paying over $40k for a civic. Please also note there is no sales tax in New Hampshire, so I have no idea how to deal with that during the process.

A couple things I have noticed about dealerships over the years that I would like to share, and this has nothing to do with my experience at Peter's:

• When you call over the phone, their job is to get you in the door. They will tell you whatever you want to hear just to get you down there, then they play games and change stories. If you want to buy a car, go down there, don't call first.
• If you decide not to buy right away, they give you what is called a "low ball" quote. It's an aggressive quote they know another dealer most likely won't match....again....to get you back in the door. Then all of a sudden "there was a mistake!", costing you time, aggravation, and more importantly, money!
• If you get a low ball quote, drive down the road to the next dealership and make them compete against one another. Be serious, but tell them "If you can match this price, I'll buy from you today". It shows you're serious and not into playing games, so they'll tend to take you more seriously knowing they have a sale in front of them. Maybe they meet the price, maybe you have to negotiate a bit, but you won't pay sticker in most cases, I can tell you that much.
• Finance managers in a dealership make money off financing and off accessories/warranties, so when you say you're going to finance through a credit union, some finance managers understand, while others take it personally and play games with you to make you regret your decision. It's petty, and it's childish, but unfortunately, that's how it is. When i bought my 2006 Acura RSX TypeS, my salesperson was nothing short of fantastic. Then, we got to the finance guy and all of a sudden "my credit score has changed". My credit score with all three bureaus is around 800 currently and was about 750 at the time. He tried adding an extra $40 to my payment. I got up and walked out and was chased out by the general manager. I told him give me what's promised or I get in my car and go buy a Honda down the street. Needless to say, I got my TypeS.

The car buying game is super frustrating at times, but do some research, figure out how other people are getting good deals, and try using similar strategies to help yourself. I hope my thread has helped educate some people and helps you with the buying process.

hockeyman316 said:

If you get a low ball quote, drive down the road to the next dealership and make them compete against one another. Be serious, but tell them "If you can match this price, I'll buy from you today". It shows you're serious and not into playing games, so they'll tend to take you more seriously knowing they have a sale in front of them.

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I agree with most of what you said, but let's be honest - playing one dealer against another is just as much of a game as those we harshly accuse the dealers of playing. If I worked at dealer B and you told me that if I could match dealer A's price then you'd buy from me, I would ask you why you didn't buy from dealer A to begin with since you were obviously willing to pay that price. If you told me it's because dealer A didn't have what you wanted in stock, then I'd ask you why I should match a price for a vehicle that doesn't exist. Also, it's not fair to dealer A if you waste their time negotiating a deal then end up buying it from dealer B for the same price. If you can't get a better deal from dealer B, then buy from dealer A.

I have never sold cars for a living nor do I have any plans to do so, but I have friends, family members, and neighbors who do and I did work on commission in retail many years ago. I've purchased 29 new vehicles for myself in 30 years of driving and have helped others get fair deals. I'm not fond of most dealerships or their employees and I have virtually no respect for the business of selling cars because of the methods involved. I'm wise to their tactics and know how to avoid them. Still, I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

Buying from dealer B for the same price as dealer A when dealer A did most of the work makes you "one of them".

Hey zroger73. I guess we both will disagree with one another, and that's okay. This thread is for people to express their opinions. I appreciate your opinion and value the time you put into making a concise argument.

When you talk about how the conversation will go at the dealership, you assume you know what will be said and how it will be said. So, either you have been involved in this type of scenario yourself or have heard a story about it. If I had dealer B ask me why I'm there, I would simply tell them I'm trying to get the best deal for me. I don't see a problem with telling them why I am there and my intentions. It helps move the process along and cut through some of the fluff.

I also have family in the car industry (not close enough to buy from), and they have made plenty of deals by being dealer B, while also losing deals being dealer A. I also work in commission sales, so I know full well what it's like to take business from someone else and to lose business because someone undercut me by pennies.....yes, pennies. I have owned 18 vehicles in my life, and while it may not be 29-30, it still gives me a pretty good amount of experience on how the car buying process goes. So, while I appreciate your feedback, just know you are not talking to someone who has purchased two or three cars in their life.

The purpose of this thread, in my opinion, is for us to help one another avoid the snakes and get what we all want, which is a fair deal on a car. i have not used some of the tactics listed above, such as going from dealer A to dealer B, but there are several people who have mentioned multiple dealerships in the area they live in all using the same underhanded tactics to take advantage of the customer. I think it is important in these situations to offer them a way to deal with these dealerships so they can get a fair deal. If the dealership leaves you no other option, will you lay down and take the best of the worst and get bullied, or will you put yourself in a situation where you can give yourself a better deal than you would have otherwise?

I know for some people settling on $500 more for a vehicle may be okay for them, but for me that's the cost of my car registration, groceries for a month, or my cell phone bill for 6 months, etc. I want a fair deal. I do business with dealerships based on their integrity. I have had some great experiences, such as Peter's Honda as mentioned in my post, and i have had some sub-par experiences, such as Autofair in Manchester, NH. Can you guess where i will take my business next time? It certainly won't be Autofair. When I get a bad feeling at a dealership, I walk, plain and simple. If they are going to start the tactics some have described in this thread, I won't do business with them. Dealerships can refuse a deal too if they don't like it. I have seen sales managers tell customers it looks like they aren't the dealership for them and wish them the best, and that's fine too. My comment on A vs. B was more for the people in the areas that have multiple shady dealerships to help them get some control back in the sales process, nothing more. If you are dissatisfied with my comment, that's okay too, and I wish you the best in your future buying experiences.

Even though we may disagree on some points, I agree that these types of discussions add helpful perspectives.

I see cars for what they are - commodities. A red 2019 Civic Si sedan is the same at dealer A as it is at dealer B as it is at dealer C. The dealer doesn't add any value to the vehicle. They didn't build it - they're just a portal. Honda's warranty is good at any Honda dealership and I pay no attention to "lifetime" dealer warranties (too many loopholes and requirements and "lifetime" is limited to many things including that of the owner of the dealer who provided the warranty). After I take delivery of a vehicle, I have no intention of ever returning to that dealer again for it. For me, it's all about price and I perform my own maintenance and out-of-warranty repairs (and some in-warranty repairs where the inconvenience of traveling to and waiting at a dealer is greater than my cost and time to replace the part myself). If a jerk at dealer B sells me the same vehicle for $500 less than a friendly salesperson at dealer A, I'll buy from dealer B because chances are I'll never see that jerk again and my pocket will be $500 heavier.

I also consider the time and effort required to save the last few hundred dollars. If my time is worth $100 an hour and it takes me 8 hours of making phone calls, writing emails, and traveling from dealer to dealer, then it would have been cheaper for me to pay $500 more in some cases and get back to work.

Ganley Honda of Bedford (Ohio)
-Offered a lease option that was more than the NON-leased car payments on my sti
-wont name salesman, it was clearly the MO around there to highball and waste 12 hours of your time
-googled another local honda dealer that got me the numbers i wanted and then knocked off $30 a month for some reason, so extra angry at Bedford

erbee said:

3k adm for Si? I bet this guy wants 30k adm for CTR. lol

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wish you wouldve asked about a type R. Couldve got yourself a $50k civic!

Got my 2019 Honda Civic SI sedan for 23.5k OTD w/ TTL at 1.9% APR with 10k down. I am paying about $386.39 a month.

I can definitely add a few from the DFW area to this list. I see that David McDavid Honda in Frisco, TX is listed. My experience there wasn't great at all. When we were thinking of trading in my now sold truck about a month ago I looked at an LX at this dealership. I had a written agreed upon price from the salesguy I had been chatting with over email and text so I drove there to take a look at it. First off this guy admitted that he didn't know how to drive a stick shift so his coworker had to pull the car up for him. On the test drive he kept asking me for pointers on how to drive a stick shift, instead of letting me really listen to the car and get it tune with it. When we got back to the dealership it was time for my truck to be appraised and I even had the KBB and NADA trade in values with me as this dealership swore that they used KBB. When the appraisal came back it was a good $6k below average trade in so I asked for my keys and started towards the door. The sales manager came back and wanted to chat with me so we sat down and he told me that maybe his guys missed something on my appraisal, but that he could come up some on the value but wanted me to fill out the credit app first. I already had my financing preapproved so I wasn't about to do this. The other thing he told me was I had to accept the added dealer crap as part of the price. Oh, and the sales manager upped the trade in an additional $5k (still $1k below average trade in) immediately after I balked at the first number. Regarding the dealer add on crap, I had seen this before and told the sales guy that I wasn't interested in that stuff and he had agreed to not charge me for it. Too bad his manager decided to pull a 180 on that part. Since the sales manager wasn't listening I decided to make a fake excuse (after walking away pretending my phone had a new text message) and tell them I needed to get home.

I saw at another Honda dealer not far from me that they also add about $3k worth of crap. I just want a straight deal starting from the manufacturer's sticker, not the additional dealer addon sticker. First off I don't agree getting raked over for that, and second my credit union won't base LTV off that anyway.

I tried contacting the North Texas Honda Dealers page on Facebook and asked if they had a dealer who didn't add additional dealer accessories and just sold new vehicles off of the manufacturers sticker and the reply I got back was to contact my closest dealer. It's turned me off some on buying a Honda but I still really like the way the Civic looks.

I'd look at something like Carvana but they want $23.5 for a 2018 Civic Si manual with 14k miles on it. I can get a new one for that from what I've seen.

FlexOnTheseKids said:

Got my 2019 Honda Civic SI sedan for 23.5k OTD w/ TTL at 1.9% APR with 10k down. I am paying about $386.39 a month.

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Thats freaking excellent. That was the exact same price I offered but dealership said no way. I live here in Southern California.

*May not be a Naughty Dealer... yet*
Back in late May I was emailing around for an Si in Iowa and found a dealer who seemed nice enough and offered a decent price under MSRP, so I go into their Honda dealership and everything looks fine, hell they even had a Type-R on display in the showroom. When I arrive however, they tell me that they had just sold their last Si unit that week, but would be willing to order a new one just for me at the same price we had previously agreed upon. He asks the color and body style I want, I tell him the blue sedan, he asks for my second-choice of color, I tell him grey. We sign all the paperwork and I gave him $3,000 of the $10,000 down we had agreed upon (I would hand over the last $7,000 when I came back to pick up the car) and I walk away excited in my anticipation of the new car coming my way. However, it has now been over a month and I am still without my Si. I emailed the dealer last week and he says they have been asking their network every day about an available Si, but have had no luck thus far.

So, I wanted to ask you all, does this raise any red-flags in any of your eyes? Should I be worried about the $3,000 I handed this guy a month ago? I'm not sure what the supply/demand ratio is for blue Si sedans, but I did not expect to be waiting over a month for an official Honda dealer to obtain one.