PRL Motorsports 2017+ FK8 Honda Civic Type-R PNP Flex Fuel Kit

PrisonerOfDoom said:

I'm legitimately shocked he is doing the tunes for you guys. That guy sits on the 10th Gen Civic FB page (and other FK8 FB pages) and straight trash talks Hondata and people wanting to run flex fuel on Type Rs.

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Yup that is what I was getting at. That 10th gen civic page is a joke and so are most of the people in it. I just avoid that page because its ktuner/prl our you're trash.

PrisonerOfDoom said:

I'm legitimately shocked he is doing the tunes for you guys. That guy sits on the 10th Gen Civic FB page (and other FK8 FB pages) and straight trash talks Hondata and people wanting to run flex fuel on Type Rs.

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I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I've never seen Derek be anything other than professional and objective in his comments. I have never seen him trash talk anyone.

davemarco said:

I'm not saying that it didn't happen, but I've never seen Derek be anything other than professional and objective in his comments. I have never seen him trash talk anyone.

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You're right, he has not personally attacked anyone. He has objectively stated time and time again that people should not run flex fuel on Type Rs. So why is he offering tuning services for people wanting run E85 if he sincerely feels it isn't safe to do so? As for bashing on Hondata he has definitely done plenty of that on FB in a rather unprofessional way.

PrisonerOfDoom said:

You're right, he has not personally attacked anyone. He has objectively stated time and time again that people should not run flex fuel on Type Rs. So why is he offering tuning
services for people wanting run E85 if he sincerely feels it isn't safe to do so? As for bashing on Hondata he has definitely done plenty of that on FB in a rather unprofessional way.

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it's probably a mistake on their end. as far as i know, he's only messing with flex fuel on the 1.5Ts.

PrisonerOfDoom said:

You're right, he has not personally attacked anyone. He has objectively stated time and time again that people should not run flex fuel on Type Rs. So why is he offering tuning services for people wanting run E85 if he sincerely feels it isn't safe to do so? As for bashing on Hondata he has definitely done plenty of that on FB in a rather unprofessional way.

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I've not revisited the subject with him, but Derek is e-tuning my Flashpro FK8. We started e-tuning on KTuner but I switched when traction control came out. He did discuss in an email, briefly, about how FF was too much for the stock fuel system and while he is correct in a vacuum (IMO), the controls Hondata has placed around DIFP and boost mitigate those concerns. And from my logs, fuel pump duty looks better at E30 and a little less boost than 93 octane looks with no DIFP controls and more boost. Further, if I take the unscientific way to measuring vehicle speed intervals based on timestamps in the logs, E30 and less boost IS faster from, say 30-70 than in my 93 octane WOT log. So to me, it's a win win. I've asked him if we will at least enable the FF mod in a later tune for me to open that back up, but I haven't heard back yet.

That said - working with Derek 1:1 has been a pleasure. He went out of his way to help me transition to Hondata, switching all of his updates from one platform to the other at no charge. I would never not recommend Derek. And yes I've seen some of his comments on the FB group but I chalk that up to a simple matter of "when in Rome..." He's got a brand and image to protect and that group is a huge base for him, so I wouldn't be upsetting the apple cart over there either. The amount of 1.5ts he can tune on Ktuner vs FK8s he can tune on either is staggeringly higher on the 1.5T side. He's just protecting his business and frankly, I don't blame him for it.

That's how I see it, anyway.

I look at it this way. He is pretty much the reason KTuner isn't offering flex fuel at this time. He makes the maps for them and doesn't think it's safe to run E85 on a Type R's stock fuel system. He has expressed many times that the controls Hondata has put in place to be able to 'safely' run flex fuel are not good (in his opinion). He is openly bias against Hondata in general and that's fine (I understand why). It just seems a little strange to me that he continues to offer his tuning services for people with Hondata running flex fuel when it goes against all that he stands for. He is obviously a great tuner and has a great reputation and I'm not trying to bash him, but if I was a tuner and I knew it wasn't safe to tune a car with certain modifications I wouldn't offer to tune the car. My only other thought is that his flex fuel tunes are going to be making less power than pump gas to ensure safety.

PrisonerOfDoom said:

I look at it this way. He is pretty much the reason KTuner isn't offering flex fuel at this time. He makes the maps for them and doesn't think it's safe to run E85 on a Type R's stock fuel system. He has expressed many times that the controls Hondata has put in place to be able to 'safely' run flex fuel are not good (in his opinion). He is openly bias against Hondata in general and that's fine (I understand why). It just seems a little strange to me that he continues to offer his tuning services for people with Hondata running flex fuel when it goes against all that he stands for. He is obviously a great tuner and has a great reputation and I'm not trying to bash him, but if I was a tuner and I knew it wasn't safe to tune a car with certain modifications I wouldn't offer to tune the car. My only other thought is that his flex fuel tunes are going to be making less power than pump gas to ensure safety.

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To be clear, he has strictly tuned my car on 93 octane to this point. No talk, other than just enabling the Flex Fuel mod has been had with regard to tuning for flex fuel

PrisonerOfDoom said:

I look at it this way. He is pretty much the reason KTuner isn't offering flex fuel at this time. He makes the maps for them and doesn't think it's safe to run E85 on a Type R's stock fuel system. He has expressed many times that the controls Hondata has put in place to be able to 'safely' run flex fuel are not good (in his opinion). He is openly bias against Hondata in general and that's fine (I understand why). It just seems a little strange to me that he continues to offer his tuning services for people with Hondata running flex fuel when it goes against all that he stands for. He is obviously a great tuner and has a great reputation and I'm not trying to bash him, but if I was a tuner and I knew it wasn't safe to tune a car with certain modifications I wouldn't offer to tune the car. My only other thought is that his flex fuel tunes are going to be making less power than pump gas to ensure safety.

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i've already told you that it was probably a mistake on prls end to offer it. If you click on the link the e tune option is gone so i'm assuming that's the case.

i'm trying to figure out why the controls hondata has put in place to run flex fuel no good? What do you think they do when the fuel pressure is dropping on pump gas. It may not be ideal (and actually counter intuitive when your trying to make more power) but ... dropping air charge is what they do no?

PrisonerOfDoom said:

I look at it this way. He is pretty much the reason KTuner isn't offering flex fuel at this time. He makes the maps for them and doesn't think it's safe to run E85 on a Type R's stock fuel system. He has expressed many times that the controls Hondata has put in place to be able to 'safely' run flex fuel are not good (in his opinion). He is openly bias against Hondata in general and that's fine (I understand why). It just seems a little strange to me that he continues to offer his tuning services for people with Hondata running flex fuel when it goes against all that he stands for. He is obviously a great tuner and has a great reputation and I'm not trying to bash him, but if I was a tuner and I knew it wasn't safe to tune a car with certain modifications I wouldn't offer to tune the car. My only other thought is that his flex fuel tunes are going to be making less power than pump gas to ensure safety.

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You do understand that he as a tuner does what the customer asked no matter how he feels on the subject. Like people stated he doesn't recommend running flex on R and has evidence to back it up. Yet people want to do it and if they don't want to listen to why then DRob just does what the customer wants. Ktuner doesn't have flex support because even they stated testing the R fuel system shows real limitations to how it handles flex. Just because he doesn't like a tuning software doesn't mean he can't and won't tune it. Most tuners who aren't comfortable with tuning with Ktuner will say to switch to hondata because that's what they know and are willing to work with. But DRob tuned with almost every platform out there so there's nothing he can't do.

LilToTo17 said:

You do understand that he as a tuner does what the customer asked no matter how he feels on the subject. Like people stated he doesn't recommend running flex on R and has evidence to back it up. Yet people want to do it and if they don't want to listen to why then DRob just does what the customer wants. Ktuner doesn't have flex support because even they stated testing the R fuel system shows real limitations to how it handles flex. Just because he doesn't like a tuning software doesn't mean he can't and won't tune it. Most tuners who aren't comfortable with tuning with Ktuner will say to switch to hondata because that's what they know and are willing to work with. But DRob tuned with almost every platform out there so there's nothing he can't do.

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Probably also helps that they have 93 octane readily available unlike us

It doesn't make sense for him for people to run a blend when you can make just as much power (maybe even less) as you can with 93.
But if i can make the same amount of power with less boost why not? Car already has heat problems so if less boost will give me like another hot lap or something, why not.

boosted180sx said:

Probably also helps that they have 93 octane readily available unlike us

It doesn't make sense for him for people to run a blend when you can make just as much power (maybe even less) as you can with 93.
But if i can make the same amount of power with less boost why not? Car already has heat problems so if less boost will give me like another hot lap or something, why not.

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Because of the huge difp nosedive in the middle sometimes on gasoline. So a fuel with greater volume demand would make it worse for the fuel system.

WOWWW, You guys perfectly ruined this thread.

Do you realize Hondata has multiple updates like fuel pump duty cycle control to address not maxing out the fuel pump with Ethanol? I’ve been running E30 OTS map ever since I installed the FlashPro and Flex Fuel since they supported it. I’ve had no issues at all. All on the stock exhaust, up pipe, down pipe with no cells, no limp mode, no issues. This is since February so thats 5 months straight and my odo is close to 10k. Hondata continually puts out update after update adding, revising supporting Flex Fuel.

Back2Honda said:

Do you realize Hondata has multiple updates like fuel pump duty cycle control to address not maxing out the fuel pump with Ethanol? I’ve been running E30 OTS map ever since I installed the FlashPro and Flex Fuel since they supported it. I’ve had no issues at all. All on the stock exhaust, up pipe, down pipe with no cells, no limp mode, no issues. This is since February so thats 5 months straight and my odo is close to 10k. Hondata continually puts out update after ipdate adding, revising supporting Flex Fuel.

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Keep thinking that and go ahead and check your plugs and injectors.

LilToTo17 said:

Keep thinking that and go ahead and check your plugs and injectors.

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What’ll be the problem? I’m not running full E85 plus I daily mine. If its not just sitting for extended period ls of time injectors will be fine otherwise I’d get stainless steel body injectors. Plugs? This isn’t my first rodeo running E85. Had it on my 04 STI fully built motor Full Race Borg Warner 8374 EFR twinscroll 612 awhp 597 ft lbs and was on full E85.