Phoenix Yellow 2020 Civic Type R facelift refresh model spotted testing at Nurburgring

SixxSpeed

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
189
Reaction score
152
Location
Western Canada
Vehicle(s)
Civic Type R
Country flag
I’m not knocking the inevitable tech that’s coming, it’s just gonna be much more expensive to fix & maintain these systems. Cars in general these days are much more complicated to work on, hybrid will only make it worse making customer more reliant on dealers for service. Some dealers & techs are great but most are a joke that I’ve dealt with....
Hmmm... agree and disagree.

I will agree that tech, as cool and great as it is, will inevitably destroy the long term reliability of any car on the market. Those electronics WILL eventually fail. It’s just a matter of time. Especially with more and more manufacturers using third party systems in their cars- Honda is no different. They are outsourcing more and more of the integrated systems that their cars rely on, simply because technology is advancing too fast and is too expensive for car manufacturers to develop themselves. Problem is- what kind of long term reliability do these parts have? Do they match the rest of Honda? Doubtful.

Honda and Acura became famous in the late 80s and throughout the 90s for their reliability- but consider those cars- they were entirely designed in house and they were WAY simpler than anything today. The most high tech thing was a CD player in the dash. VTEC was/is purely a mechanical system. Honda engine’s are built to last, and they do. But everything else these days? Eehhhh....

BUT. When you look at electric cars, I think they will be way more reliable than any internal combustion power train (only as far as the power train is concerned, anyway)- the electrical motors and entire system have very little parts to them, unlike an ICE engine that is made of countless moving parts.

I think people will ultimately have more issues with the tablet screens installed in many new dashes that will likely die eventually and pricey to replace. Power this, power that, sensors here, there, everywhere, camera this and that, etc, etc... going over countless bumps and knocks, crazy temperature cycles from -40F to 110F, fender benders or accidents in general, etc... I don’t think any electronic can last that.
Sponsored

 

SixxSpeed

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2019
Threads
3
Messages
189
Reaction score
152
Location
Western Canada
Vehicle(s)
Civic Type R
Country flag
I’m also no tree hugging hippy, but even I have to admit those cells these electric cars rely on will be a crazy environmental nightmare when these cars become more common place.

I’m also nervous to know what will happen with my CTR in 10 years- will it be a massive piece of shit like my Acura TL that suffered numerous electrical gremlins later in its life? Ugh, I hope not. But I ain’t holding my breath either.

Failed Bluetooth system (twice, only rated to last 5 years by the manufacturer and NOT built by Honda), Navi system failed three times, occasionally the dash would light up like a Xmas tree with lights and warnings for no reason, etc. And this is on a car built in 2006 and still only has 120k miles on it and is way simpler overall than my CTR. Ugh.
 

Integra.thanh

Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
32
Reaction score
9
Location
HOU
Vehicle(s)
WRX
Country flag
Any gauge on when 2020 colors will be announced and also when 2020 models are available to order?
 


TypeSiR

Senior Member
Joined
May 15, 2017
Threads
67
Messages
2,091
Reaction score
1,689
Location
On a Twisty Road
Vehicle(s)
1.5T Civic, Fit, MX-5, CTR
Vehicle Showcase
3
Country flag
November 2018 they announced 2019 info so I'm guessing around October/November 2019 we'll hear official word about 2020
My thoughts as well. It’s really just around the corner in car release cycle. It also allows time to put money into the piggy bank. Can’t wait!
 

NTAWRX

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
Location
Virginia Beach
Vehicle(s)
2006 civic si and 2017 CTR #1077
Country flag
For those still reading, Honda is supposed to introduce a hybrid system to their next generation of cars. Basically we can’t run from electric and the bottom line is that batteries suck. They aren’t better for the environment and they definitely create a huge disposable problem. Hydrogen is the way to go, but it is not as prevalent as it should be. For those commenting on electric vs ICE, electric motors are just more efficient. They have less moving parts, which equate to less mechanical losses. It’s not that they can produce more power or torque, they can just do it more efficiently. However one thing you can do with electric that you can’t do with ICEs is move the motor to the loading points of the car and increase the handling. This is worth its weight in gold and will create awd systems that will destroy anything we currently have today.
 

NapalmEnema

Senior Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Threads
45
Messages
2,934
Reaction score
3,791
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 M2, 2022 Audi RS3, ex2019, now 2021Type R!
Country flag
I so want this car now that it comes in that yellow. <drool>
 

FriscoBrah

Banned
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
345
Reaction score
187
Location
Frisco, TX
Vehicle(s)
2018 Championship White Civic Type R
Country flag
For those still reading, Honda is supposed to introduce a hybrid system to their next generation of cars. Basically we can’t run from electric and the bottom line is that batteries suck. They aren’t better for the environment and they definitely create a huge disposable problem. Hydrogen is the way to go, but it is not as prevalent as it should be. For those commenting on electric vs ICE, electric motors are just more efficient. They have less moving parts, which equate to less mechanical losses. It’s not that they can produce more power or torque, they can just do it more efficiently. However one thing you can do with electric that you can’t do with ICEs is move the motor to the loading points of the car and increase the handling. This is worth its weight in gold and will create awd systems that will destroy anything we currently have today.
It's battery tech that's the problem with EVs, but hydrogen isn't the answer.

Why?
  • You cannot fill up like you do with gasoline or diesel. It is actually pretty ridiculous how hard it is to fill up a HFC powered car
  • You won’t even go 100 miles on current tech hydrogen tanks that are still safe to carry around in a car
  • Fuel cells wear out crazy fast and are hard to regenerate
  • Hydrogen as a fuel is incredibly hard to make and distribute with acceptably low losses
  • Hydrogen fuel cells have bad theoretical and practical efficiency
  • Hydrogen storage is inefficient, energetically, volumetrically and with respect to weight
  • HFCs require a shit ton of supporting systems, making them much more complicated and prone to failure than combustion or electric engines
  • There is no infrastructure for distributing or even making hydrogen in large quantities. There won’t be for at least 20 or 30 years, even if we start building it like crazy today.
  • Hydrogen is actually pretty hard to make. It has a horrible well-to-wheel efficiency as a result.
  • Easy ways to get large quantities of hydrogen are not ‘cleaner’ than gasoline.
  • Efficient HFCs have very slow response times, meaning you again need additional systems to store energy for accelerating
  • Even though a HFC-powered car is essentially an electric car, you get none of the benefits like filling it up with your own power source, using it as a smart grid buffer, regenerating energy during braking, etc.
  • Battery electric cars will always be better in every way given the speed of technological developments past, present and future
 

NTAWRX

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
Location
Virginia Beach
Vehicle(s)
2006 civic si and 2017 CTR #1077
Country flag
Well I guess we just stick with good old gasoline and I think I hit a nerve.

However at least Honda and Toyota are currently supporting these vehicles in So Cal. Your assertion about the tank size and overall mileage is completely wrong. Do a quick Google search and you will find out the Toyota Mira does have a 32.3 gallon tank and it gets 66 MPGs in the City and Highway. I pulled up next to one of these a month ago and although I don’t agree with the styling, it doesn’t appear to be slow. It’s not a type r, but it was quicker than the Hyundai I was driving.

I agree developing the infrastructure and distribution does seem very daunting, but it doesn’t mean it will take 20-30 yrs. As far as producing Hydrogen we need to invest into renewable energies to support this process.

I just watched a video of filling up a hydrogen car and it seemed pretty easy. It appears to take just as long to fill up as a gasoline car.

The US has an antiquated grid dating back to the 50s that will not support a large portion of the adult driving Americans charging their cars every night. I would not consider charging batteries at home a positive. This not only puts a demand on the grid, but it also requires more energy. A pie in the sky thinker might believe that we can use renewables to supplement the additional load, but that won’t be the case. More coal and gas will be used to support the additional needs of the people. By the way you can use renewables to split hydrogen from water. Since the planet is 70 % H2O and increasing its water levels on a daily bases, we have enough resources. If Hydrogen is claimed through electrolysis and done so by renewables, it is considered a renewable.

What I would like to see is an electric truck design for Vermont Winters and that can pull a 30 ft boat.

I think at this point we have to agree to disagree. Batteries are not the future, but to each their own.
 


NapalmEnema

Senior Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Threads
45
Messages
2,934
Reaction score
3,791
Location
USA
Vehicle(s)
2017 M2, 2022 Audi RS3, ex2019, now 2021Type R!
Country flag
Well I guess we just stick with good old gasoline and I think I hit a nerve.

However at least Honda and Toyota are currently supporting these vehicles in So Cal. Your assertion about the tank size and overall mileage is completely wrong. Do a quick Google search and you will find out the Toyota Mira does have a 32.3 gallon tank and it gets 66 MPGs in the City and Highway. I pulled up next to one of these a month ago and although I don’t agree with the styling, it doesn’t appear to be slow. It’s not a type r, but it was quicker than the Hyundai I was driving.

I agree developing the infrastructure and distribution does seem very daunting, but it doesn’t mean it will take 20-30 yrs. As far as producing Hydrogen we need to invest into renewable energies to support this process.

I just watched a video of filling up a hydrogen car and it seemed pretty easy. It appears to take just as long to fill up as a gasoline car.

The US has an antiquated grid dating back to the 50s that will not support a large portion of the adult driving Americans charging their cars every night. I would not consider charging batteries at home a positive. This not only puts a demand on the grid, but it also requires more energy. A pie in the sky thinker might believe that we can use renewables to supplement the additional load, but that won’t be the case. More coal and gas will be used to support the additional needs of the people. By the way you can use renewables to split hydrogen from water. Since the planet is 70 % H2O and increasing its water levels on a daily bases, we have enough resources. If Hydrogen is claimed through electrolysis and done so by renewables, it is considered a renewable.

What I would like to see is an electric truck design for Vermont Winters and that can pull a 30 ft boat.

I think at this point we have to agree to disagree. Batteries are not the future, but to each their own.
Humans are stupid. Humans will exhaust all possible reserves of gasoline before panicking and switching to something else when it's almost too late. I'm a realist - dino based cars are what will be around while I'm alive so I'm going to enjoy them. These new cars are interesting but not catching on 'just yet' but happy to see when they do. What I will miss, and thoroughly enjoy now, is the SOUND of an engine. Nothing is more anti-climactic than going fast in a Tesla. Yes it feels fast, but it's just weird with just wind noise and no visceral feeling of a motor surging, the growl of an exhaust etc..

Glad I'm alive and enjoying what we have now before things get boring and covered in lights. :)
 

NTAWRX

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
Location
Virginia Beach
Vehicle(s)
2006 civic si and 2017 CTR #1077
Country flag
Humans are stupid. Humans will exhaust all possible reserves of gasoline before panicking and switching to something else when it's almost too late. I'm a realist - dino based cars are what will be around while I'm alive so I'm going to enjoy them. These new cars are interesting but not catching on 'just yet' but happy to see when they do. What I will miss, and thoroughly enjoy now, is the SOUND of an engine. Nothing is more anti-climactic than going fast in a Tesla. Yes it feels fast, but it's just weird with just wind noise and no visceral feeling of a motor surging, the growl of an exhaust etc..

Glad I'm alive and enjoying what we have now before things get boring and covered in lights. :)
I totally agree. I love the idea of being able to choose to drive fwd, awd, or rwd, but I do enjoy the sound of a V8 with a tuned exhaust.
 

FriscoBrah

Banned
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
345
Reaction score
187
Location
Frisco, TX
Vehicle(s)
2018 Championship White Civic Type R
Country flag
Well I guess we just stick with good old gasoline and I think I hit a nerve.

However at least Honda and Toyota are currently supporting these vehicles in So Cal. Your assertion about the tank size and overall mileage is completely wrong. Do a quick Google search and you will find out the Toyota Mira does have a 32.3 gallon tank and it gets 66 MPGs in the City and Highway. I pulled up next to one of these a month ago and although I don’t agree with the styling, it doesn’t appear to be slow. It’s not a type r, but it was quicker than the Hyundai I was driving.

I agree developing the infrastructure and distribution does seem very daunting, but it doesn’t mean it will take 20-30 yrs. As far as producing Hydrogen we need to invest into renewable energies to support this process.

I just watched a video of filling up a hydrogen car and it seemed pretty easy. It appears to take just as long to fill up as a gasoline car.

The US has an antiquated grid dating back to the 50s that will not support a large portion of the adult driving Americans charging their cars every night. I would not consider charging batteries at home a positive. This not only puts a demand on the grid, but it also requires more energy. A pie in the sky thinker might believe that we can use renewables to supplement the additional load, but that won’t be the case. More coal and gas will be used to support the additional needs of the people. By the way you can use renewables to split hydrogen from water. Since the planet is 70 % H2O and increasing its water levels on a daily bases, we have enough resources. If Hydrogen is claimed through electrolysis and done so by renewables, it is considered a renewable.

What I would like to see is an electric truck design for Vermont Winters and that can pull a 30 ft boat.

I think at this point we have to agree to disagree. Batteries are not the future, but to each their own.
No nerve was hit it’s science. Hydrogen will always be hard to produce while storage of energy or “battery tech” will progress. This makes more financial sense as our most abundant source is the sun. Hydrogen will never output more stored energy than a battery or what solar can provide. That’s not even considering the interim of a green grid. The long-term will move onto nuclear fission once a stable cost effective solution is developed.

It’s also possible you’re a super genius and know more than every auto manufacturer on the planet that’s investing billions into EVs lol.

What’s next Brain???
 
Last edited:

NTAWRX

Member
Joined
May 26, 2018
Threads
2
Messages
39
Reaction score
16
Location
Virginia Beach
Vehicle(s)
2006 civic si and 2017 CTR #1077
Country flag
No nerve was hit it’s science. Hydrogen will always be hard to produce while storage of energy or “battery tech” will progress. This makes more financial sense as our most abundant source is the sun. Hydrogen will never output more stored energy than a battery or what solar can provide. That’s not even considering the interim of a green grid. The long-term will move onto nuclear fission once a stable cost effective solution is developed.

It’s also possible you’re a super genius and know more than every auto manufacturer on the planet that’s investing billions into EVs lol.

What’s next Brain???
So nuclear fission reactors already exist. I think you mean fusion and this technology is about 30 yrs away. Also the US hasn’t built a new reactor in almost 30 yrs. The development of new reactor types were stifled by president Carter back in the mid 70s. I would agree fusion has always been the magical unicorn and maybe we will see this before a superconductor that can be used in temperatures above freezing. However Hydrogen technology is still being pursued by the smaller auto manufactures; such as Ford, GM, Toyota, and Honda. I bet they aren’t listening to Elon though, because if they were maybe they would retreat and put all of their investments into EVs. EVs will always have some share of the auto market, it will just not be the dominant player.
 

FriscoBrah

Banned
Banned
Joined
Dec 9, 2017
Threads
9
Messages
345
Reaction score
187
Location
Frisco, TX
Vehicle(s)
2018 Championship White Civic Type R
Country flag
So nuclear fission reactors already exist. I think you mean fusion and this technology is about 30 yrs away. Also the US hasn’t built a new reactor in almost 30 yrs. The development of new reactor types were stifled by president Carter back in the mid 70s. I would agree fusion has always been the magical unicorn and maybe we will see this before a superconductor that can be used in temperatures above freezing. However Hydrogen technology is still being pursued by the smaller auto manufactures; such as Ford, GM, Toyota, and Honda. I bet they aren’t listening to Elon though, because if they were maybe they would retreat and put all of their investments into EVs. EVs will always have some share of the auto market, it will just not be the dominant player.
Yes I meant fusion, auto correct got me and it would be amazing if it could be further developed. I don't see hydrogen being feasible due to the financial challenges but then again all of this isn't my specialty. Either way it's a great time for automotive technologies.
Sponsored

 


 


Top