To those who moved on from Civic X Si...

[QUOTE="jred721, post: 605219, member: 18617" But overall it sounds like you're not happy with a 10th gen Civic, so if it's really that bad just move on and get a different car. [/QUOTE]

That's what I'll definitely do. By next year summer, this car is out. In my list are a Type R, but then again it uses the same dashboard that flakes and probably uses the same grenading AC system and proven that gets carbon buildup.

Toyota Camry XSE with 2.4L and JBL looks great as it kicks the Si's rear end in terms of combination of power that produces about the same power as the Si with no BS of about 800rpm boost buildup+better mpg+no turbo+no carbon buildup and non-belt tranmission that makes me don't need for extended warranty like Honda Care as I did with my Si because of its extra parts in the engine bay like the turbo, known issue for DI engines which is carbon buildup, oil dilution when short driving and the grenading AC system. The Type R is in my radar as of yet, and so is the Camry XSE V6 as they are at the same ~$35000 price point.

The new corolla with its 2.0L brings Honda's K20C2 to shame with 11 more HP and 13 more lb-ft Torque and brings about the same MPG and least having 1st mechanical gear and lastly seems not having a grenading AC system. But I'm not really into paying $25K for a Corolla.

Royal_Purple_Oil_Filter said:

I don't get where you're cominig from? You mean Civic X Si's rolling out for sale in dealers with the "car's strength" that you mentioned that "isn't for me", together with these 10 problems is ok?

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What? To literally all of the post....

joshhjackson2112 said:

What? To literally all of the post....

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Yes. Is it justified to have those issues within 5 months of ownership? If Honda is gonna go GM quality (which is the direction of Honda according from Honda owners in the 80's and 90's) then I think its justified.

Royal_Purple_Oil_Filter said:

[QUOTE="jred721, post: 605219, member: 18617" But overall it sounds like you're not happy with a 10th gen Civic, so if it's really that bad just move on and get a different car.

Click to expand...

That's what I'll definitely do. By next year summer, this car is out. In my list are a Type R, but then again it uses the same dashboard that flakes and probably uses the same grenading AC system and proven that gets carbon buildup.

Toyota Camry XSE with 2.4L and JBL looks great as it kicks the Si's rear end in terms of combination of power that produces about the same power as the Si with no BS of about 800rpm boost buildup+better mpg+no turbo+no carbon buildup and non-belt tranmission that makes me don't need for extended warranty like Honda Care as I did with my Si because of its extra parts in the engine bay like the turbo, known issue for DI engines which is carbon buildup, oil dilution when short driving and the grenading AC system. The Type R is in my radar as of yet, and so is the Camry XSE V6 as they are at the same ~$35000 price point.

The new corolla with its 2.0L brings Honda's K20C2 to shame with 11 more HP and 13 more lb-ft Torque and brings about the same MPG and least having 1st mechanical gear and lastly seems not having a grenading AC system. But I'm not really into paying $25K for a Corolla.[/QUOTE]
Why do you even own a Honda? You sound like a hater.

xbbnx said:

That's what I'll definitely do. By next year summer, this car is out. In my list are a Type R, but then again it uses the same dashboard that flakes and probably uses the same grenading AC system and proven that gets carbon buildup.

Toyota Camry XSE with 2.4L and JBL looks great as it kicks the Si's rear end in terms of combination of power that produces about the same power as the Si with no BS of about 800rpm boost buildup+better mpg+no turbo+no carbon buildup and non-belt tranmission that makes me don't need for extended warranty like Honda Care as I did with my Si because of its extra parts in the engine bay like the turbo, known issue for DI engines which is carbon buildup, oil dilution when short driving and the grenading AC system. The Type R is in my radar as of yet, and so is the Camry XSE V6 as they are at the same ~$35000 price point.

The new corolla with its 2.0L brings Honda's K20C2 to shame with 11 more HP and 13 more lb-ft Torque and brings about the same MPG and least having 1st mechanical gear and lastly seems not having a grenading AC system. But I'm not really into paying $25K for a Corolla.

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Why do you even own a Honda? You sound like a hater.[/QUOTE]

Because Honda just gave me the finger this time that it took me after about 5 months to admit that I made a mistake that I was finally out off the Honda fan delusion like a bad religion. You can pretty much tell that I belong to a "Honda" family, my dad, my brother, my uncle, my cousin, you name it. My previous 9th gen EX-L only had a problem which is it went to limp mode at about 68K miles and thats it until I sold it at 90K miles. Then I jumped over this 10th gen, the generation that will shut up critics with the boring driving dynamics of the 9th gen, on which it did and not just the regular 10th gen, but an Si. I really enjoyed it as it is miles ahead compared to a 9th gen EX-L in terms of driving dynamics. I was in denial that all these problems (9 at that time) are nothing to worry about all because I'm driving a "Honda", not just a Honda, but a Civic Si. You get other drivers looking at you driving your Civic X Si that you really get the "street cred" because on how good it looks.

Until I discovered the 10th problem which is the dashboard flaking, then I finally snapped, on which I entered the stage of enlightenment, the Honda fan brainwash was finally washed away, as this is objectively bizarre as I'm using a dashboard cover and it still flakes which leads to the conclusion that the dashboard material really is defective. Like, in all of Honda's history of making cars, the couldn't make the dashboard perfect at least for a 6 months old car (my car was built 11/2018). The AC problem is serious as after the dealer replaces the defective parts, they will still install the same part, same design and its destined to fail again over and over. The fish eyes on the body paint seems to be poping out one by one. The chassis is getting rusted in a fast rate. The transmission hopefully doesn't get worse. No more new problems hopefully as I'm really now driving a GM quality car.

The brakes. I love the story about the brakes. I was banging loud and proud with my no improvement 10 speaker system over the 7 speaker of a 9th gen and I drove into the freeway. At the usual freeway speed, I was cruising side by side with an old Toyota Tacoma truck. I turned off my loud music as I want to enjoy the wind and immediately I heard a continuous screeching scratching sound and I rolled down the windows and I figured that the sound is actually moving along with my car, so I looked at the Tacoma truck beside me thinking that it must be his truck as its old so it should really make noises. But as soon as I looked at the driver, the driver is actually looking at me. I can tell the Tacoma driver is looking at me as he thinks that the screeching sound is on my car on which obviously I thought that time that its complete BS and impossible until I exit through a ramp and now I'm alone and the screeching sound still there. And now we know who won on that side by side "looking contest" in the freeway. Thinking about the side by side Tacoma scene, it is totally embarrassing. Then after a week and a half, it happened again....then again...then again...like a total of 5 times now.

I admit the Stock Wheels and 10 speaker system are just picky problems. But I will go as far to say that the 10 speaker system is a scam if you think that's an upgrade vs the 7 speaker of the 9th gen.

So yeah, Honda is responsible why I sound like a "hater" as I expect QUALITY especially within first 5 months of ownership. Now that I'm also now able to make sense that the only things that make sense about the Civic X Si is just the cornering (but the Toyota 86 is miles away) and lsd.

The engine is not really that special as the Camry's 2.5L makes as much power. Ok the SI's torque comes as low as 2100rpm, but in exchange for that you'll get carbon buildup (that's about $400 to $700 valve cleaning per certain miles...more maintenance), less MPG, less reliability projection as you have more parts under the hood, boost lag and oil dilution...so you have to set your routes longer and set schedules to drive your Si on your vacant days if you drive short all the time to if you want that Honda engine reliability on their new DI Turbo engines. This is the new Honda engine excellence.

Right now Honda is gliding to be a NA engine quitters. Props to Toyota and Mazda not heading to that direction.

Oh and the AC system grenades.

lol, I love the OP complaining about potential issues that he read about online as if they're actual issues with his car. Classic.

Buyer's remorse is real, impossible customers are real. A dealer should warranty real issues.

OP.... if I were you, I'd definitely buy an NA Toyota. Offload a car you've had some legitament problems with and you're concerned about other potential problems and you are turning non problems... about a small displacement engine seeming underpowered when you have no boost so it's more efficient as it needs more throttle, resulting in lower pumping losses. About carbon deposits we know can be issues on DI engines, but I haven't seen any indication we have issues on ours... and Honda released information on how they minimize it. I haven't seen a single scoped/teardown showing a pile of carbon buildup. To top it all off... I'd stop trying to jam a rolling car back into 1st... or at least rev match before you do so.

Be prepared for.some brown grass though. If you just Google, "Camry poor paint" you'll find plenty of threads on Toyota forums lit up with how poor paint quality is on the newer Toyotas as well. It's not just a Honda problem, it's a modern car problem.

As to you comment:

xbbnx said:

Toyota Camry XSE with 2.4L and JBL looks great as it kicks the Si's rear end in terms of combination of power that produces about the same power

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Unless I'm missing something...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mo...17-toyota-camry-xse-i4-first-test-review/amp/

...it's got a 2.5L...

0-60: 8.5
1/4 mile: 16.5
Skidpad: .82g

Subjectively it may well be a smoother, more refined and comfortable ride (Toyota makes a good car) it is a substantially slower can than any L15B7 powered car, regardless of trim. It is substantially less efficient as well. I looked and unless I'm mistaken, the 2017 car is what is still current today.

The new Corolla seems also not performance oriented or quick. Surprisingly (and sadly, TBH... competition breeds innovation) more power didn't equate to much more acceleration.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a20136315/2019-toyota-corolla-hatchback-first-drive-review/

When it comes down to it OP... if the Toyota looks like the right car, go for it. We'd (at least I'd) be interested in a comparison review before you jump ship as the instrumented tests seem to show it being a substantially different and not performance oriented car at all. A Camry also costs a lot more than most Civic trims. It's substantially different, but that might be a better car for for you.

charleswrivers said:

OP.... if I were you, I'd definitely buy an NA Toyota. Offload a car you've had some legitament problems with and you're concerned about other potential problems and you are turning non problems... about a small displacement engine seeming underpowered when you have no boost so it's more efficient as it needs more throttle, resulting in lower pumping losses. About carbon deposits we know can be issues on DI engines, but I haven't seen any indication we have issues on ours... and Honda released information on how they minimize it. I haven't seen a single scoped/teardown showing a pile of carbon buildup. To top it all off... I'd stop trying to jam a rolling car back into 1st... or at least rev match before you do so.

Be prepared for.some brown grass though. If you just Google, "Camry poor paint" you'll find plenty of threads on Toyota forums lit up with how poor paint quality is on the newer Toyotas as well. It's not just a Honda problem, it's a modern car problem.

As to you comment:


Unless I'm missing something...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mo...17-toyota-camry-xse-i4-first-test-review/amp/

...it's got a 2.5L...

0-60: 8.5
1/4 mile: 16.5
Skidpad: .82g

Subjectively it may well be a smoother, more refined and comfortable ride (Toyota makes a good car) it is a substantially slower can than any L15B7 powered car, regardless of trim. It is substantially less efficient as well. I looked and unless I'm mistaken, the 2017 car is what is still current today.

The new Corolla seems also not performance oriented or quick. Surprisingly (and sadly, TBH... competition breeds innovation) more power didn't equate to much more acceleration.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a20136315/2019-toyota-corolla-hatchback-first-drive-review/

When it comes down to it OP... if the Toyota looks like the right car, go for it. We'd (at least I'd) be interested in a comparison review before you jump ship as the instrumented tests seem to show it being a substantially different and not performance oriented car at all cosand thata Camry that costs a lot more than most Civic trims. It's substantially different, but that might be a better for for you.

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Yes to all of this! Lol Charles...can we be friends?

xbbnx said:

That's what I'll definitely do. By next year summer, this car is out. In my list are a Type R, but then again it uses the same dashboard that flakes and probably uses the same grenading AC system and proven that gets carbon buildup.

Toyota Camry XSE with 2.4L and JBL looks great as it kicks the Si's rear end in terms of combination of power that produces about the same power as the Si with no BS of about 800rpm boost buildup+better mpg+no turbo+no carbon buildup and non-belt tranmission that makes me don't need for extended warranty like Honda Care as I did with my Si because of its extra parts in the engine bay like the turbo, known issue for DI engines which is carbon buildup, oil dilution when short driving and the grenading AC system. The Type R is in my radar as of yet, and so is the Camry XSE V6 as they are at the same ~$35000 price point.

The new corolla with its 2.0L brings Honda's K20C2 to shame with 11 more HP and 13 more lb-ft Torque and brings about the same MPG and least having 1st mechanical gear and lastly seems not having a grenading AC system. But I'm not really into paying $25K for a Corolla.

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Why do you even own a Honda? You sound like a hater.[/QUOTE]

Definitely already sounds checked out...perhaps even before buying into Honda. At this point, get out of your Honda OP...I think the community will be a better place afterwards...sorry not sorry?

BPF129 said:

Yes to all of this! Lol Charles...can we be friends?

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Sure. I'm everyone's friend as long as they're not an ass-hat. (Not that you are one, OP!)

I'm an overall car enthusiast. I've been following Toyotas as well. I think the most recent Camry is a sharp looking car. I acknowledge that they're catering to a group of folks still wanting NA engines... and they're a hold out for V6s in their midsize cars. I watched the Engineering Explained on CVTs and thought their geared CVT with a actual launch gear was intriguing and hoped it'd pay dividends.

In the end though... the instrumented tests just don't show them being competitive in acceleration, handing or with their fuel economy... even observed from the one tidbit I saw. There may be other reviews that are somewhat more favorable... but that's just what it seems to be. Toyota still makes a good car and I can't say that subjectively it wouldn't 'feel' like a better car. I've driven and ridden in a few of the more modern, but not '17+ Camrys and have thought they were a pretty solid car. It just didn't check enough of my fun boxes and the 'big' midsize car is never one I've ever cared for. Usually it compromises on handling, braking and efficiency at a high price point such that I don't think they're that great. This current Civic is so big now, I think it's big enough to seat my small family if I want to... it handles good... it's efficient... it's quick... it was cheap. And yes. The paint sucks. Honda's paint has sucked since time out of mind. Most modern cars have pretty junky and thin paint jobs that aren't terribly durable anymore. I wish it wasn't so. It seems like the world has caught up to Honda-level-paint-suck.

The materials in mine's interior look to have held up ok, though there's more rattles than there should be but they haven't bothered me enough to attack and correct them yet. Mine's trouble spot is the driver's side A-pillar... and only now and then. At the car's price point... I think the compromises are acceptable. At ~23k, it's about as much car as I would expect and with a turbo, for the cost of a tuner and adding TSP stage 1, it pretty well matches the power-to-weight ratio during it's pretty long, flat stretch at peak power vs that of a K20C4 powered Accord...

Civic Si w/TSP Stage 1 237HP/2906lbs = .0816
Accord 2.0t 252HP/3283lbs = .0768

I don't know, OP. Again... go to a Toyota dealer and drive the hell out of that Camry and Corolla. If they move you and you think your car is a lemon that is going to cost you more heartache and $$$ than the depreciation hit you'll take on a trade so soon... go for it. Let us know how it goes.

https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2018-toyota-camry-se-essentials-mostly-good-few-exceptions

"But then there’s the transmission, which needs an exorcism.

Remember, this is the SE trim -- the sporty model -- and its agonizing transmission programming suggests the LE will be almost undrivable. In D, the car seems to upshift to fourth by 20 mph, and any attempt to accelerate is met with a yawn and multiple downshifts. It's like piloting a steamship; you have to call down to the engine room for more power, then wait for the boilers to respond. S mode holds gears slightly longer and behaves more like a regular transmission, but then it seems to stop upshifting at 4th gear unless the driver uses the shift paddles (a truly laughable accessory on this car) to set the top gear. The result: Neither mode is adequate as-programmed for regular around-town driving."

The Camry isn't perfect, I've spent time on that forum, they have complaints about everything under the sun, including the sluggish transmission that lurches. If you go on any car forum, you're going to see complaints...

...I also loved the dismissive opening line for thr Corolla on C&D: "A better Corolla is still a Corolla."

I couldn't help but chuckle. The Corolla can't get out from under it's underwhelming persona. It's a shame. If Toyota swung for the fences it'd make Honda have to answer. I'm starting to worry Honda Civics are turning into Star Trek movies. The even numbered ones are great. The odd numbered ones suck. If the competition doesn't make gen 10 pretty uncompetitive as production comes to a close, gen 11 might just be an uninspired rehash.

No, the K20C2 will never run circles around the XSE's 2.5L that produces 206 HP and 186 lb-ft of torque and these power figures are indeed comparable to the Si's 205 HP and 192 lb-ft, and may I remind you that you won't get carbon buildup on the 2.5L so less maintenance for not needing valve cleaning and you don't need to go for long routes or do drive on weekends just for the sake to manage the oil dilution.

And the new Corolla's new 2.0L indeed eclipsed the K20C2 as it is more efficient in city and combined numbers while making more power.

charleswrivers said:

Sure. I'm everyone's friend as long as they're not an ass-hat. (Not that you are one, OP!)

I'm an overall car enthusiast. I've been following Toyotas as well. I think the most recent Camry is a sharp looking car. I acknowledge that they're catering to a group of folks still wanting NA engines... and they're a hold out for V6s in their midsize cars. I watched the Engineering Explained on CVTs and thought their geared CVT with a actual launch gear was intriguing and hoped it'd pay dividends.

In the end though... the instrumented tests just don't show them being competitive in acceleration, handing or with their fuel economy... even observed from the one tidbit I saw. There may be other reviews that are somewhat more favorable... but that's just what it seems to be. Toyota still makes a good car and I can't say that subjectively it wouldn't 'feel' like a better car. I've driven and ridden in a few of the more modern, but not '17+ Camrys and have thought they were a pretty solid car. It just didn't check enough of my fun boxes and the 'big' midsize car is never one I've ever cared for. Usually it compromises on handling, braking and efficiency at a high price point such that I don't think they're that great. This current Civic is so big now, I think it's big enough to seat my small family if I want to... it handles good... it's efficient... it's quick... it was cheap. And yes. The paint sucks. Honda's paint has sucked since time out of mind. Most modern cars have pretty junky and thin paint jobs that aren't terribly durable anymore. I wish it wasn't so. It seems like the world has caught up to Honda-level-paint-suck.

The materials in mine's interior look to have held up ok, though there's more rattles than there should be but they haven't bothered me enough to attack and correct them yet. Mine's trouble spot is the driver's side A-pillar... and only now and then. At the car's price point... I think the compromises are acceptable. At ~23k, it's about as much car as I would expect and with a turbo, for the cost of a tuner and adding TSP stage 1, it pretty well matches the power-to-weight ratio during it's pretty long, flat stretch at peak power vs that of a K20C4 powered Accord...

Civic Si w/TSP Stage 1 237HP/2906lbs = .0816
Accord 2.0t 252HP/3283lbs = .0768

I don't know, OP. Again... go to a Toyota dealer and drive the hell out of that Camry and Corolla. If they move you and you think your car is a lemon that is going to cost you more heartache and $$$ than the depreciation hit you'll take on a trade so soon... go for it. Let us know how it goes.

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Not looking into tuning as I like to keep my warranty and at the same time to be sure that it will get to 300,000 miles, I always find it really funny when other forum members here when their civic fires up engine code, then tries to cheat the warranty by reverting back to stock. I already test drove earlier this day an XSE 2.5L and indeed it doesn't have the driving dynamics of the Si but it sure is still way better than my previous 9th gen EX-L plus the JBL sound system indeed did add pleasant to my hearing in addition to its good driving dynamics. I haven't found a Corolla with JBL to test and I'm also going to see the new Mazda 3 as that one has Bose sound system.