Rear Suspension Clunking

NHCivicGuy

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Hey all first post here and owner of my 2019 Si coupe since Christmas 2018.

i’m pretty sure i know exactly what this is but i’m consulting with other engineers on it now.

same thing happened on a few rear high performance suspension systems out there.

rear sway bar bushings are very soft with internal nylon rate plate features.

they get very hard under 30F almost like a glass transition temperature. the rubber shrinks significantly and the outer size shrinks and you get play between the outer rubber (hard like a rock when cold also) and the bracket. in addition if the ID is not glued to the sway bar itself you can have the interference fit between bar and bushings rapidly become a clearance hole and again you get loud thunking.

i checked the links they are just fine and fyi blown ball joint links fail cold or warm. only the rubber has this issue when cold. and man when those cold days hit it sounds like the rear end is going to fall off!!

so i’ve reached out to see if there is a fix out there with the folks who designed it. i’ll write back asap

in the mean time realize this is a performance enhancement when not cold meaning it is so fine tuned for the perfect ride feel this was a result. fixing it will tighten things up back there and could change the perfect handling balance

quick fix? aftermarket bushings that have way more interference fit. or maybe if they are not glued to the bar use the bushings from a smaller size bar diameter so the interference fit will be much increased. this will fuck up the ride a little tho.

hope that helps. Jeff
Great find! You may have actually found the issue after all.

On my previous car with an aftermarket sway bar, I actually wrapped the bar where the bushings sit with teflon tape. This kept the area slick in case the lube dried out before I could lube them up again. I wonder if doing some layers here with that would help tighten and solve that up.
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twistedneck

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Great find! You may have actually found the issue after all.

On my previous car with an aftermarket sway bar, I actually wrapped the bar where the bushings sit with teflon tape. This kept the area slick in case the lube dried out before I could lube them up again. I wonder if doing some layers here with that would help tighten and solve that up.
Teflon has horrible elastic qualities and its not that strong either.. the stresses and strains at that interface get bad and rubber not only self heats, reverts, tears, etc. it also melts stuff - If you could wrap some epoxy around there to make the diameter larger maybe? best bet, get the bushings for the smaller bar. I reached out no replies yet but that might be the best way, then use NYE 880 or similar 40% + Teflon based lube that will last a long time and be thick enough to stay persistent for the year. but these don't have squawk, they have thunk and that's usually preload.
 

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Hey all first post here and owner of my 2019 Si coupe since Christmas 2018.

i’m pretty sure i know exactly what this is but i’m consulting with other engineers on it now.

same thing happened on a few rear high performance suspension systems out there.

rear sway bar bushings are very soft with internal nylon rate plate features.

they get very hard under 30F almost like a glass transition temperature. the rubber shrinks significantly and the outer size shrinks and you get play between the outer rubber (hard like a rock when cold also) and the bracket. in addition if the ID is not glued to the sway bar itself you can have the interference fit between bar and bushings rapidly become a clearance hole and again you get loud thunking.

i checked the links they are just fine and fyi blown ball joint links fail cold or warm. only the rubber has this issue when cold. and man when those cold days hit it sounds like the rear end is going to fall off!!

so i’ve reached out to see if there is a fix out there with the folks who designed it. i’ll write back asap

in the mean time realize this is a performance enhancement when not cold meaning it is so fine tuned for the perfect ride feel this was a result. fixing it will tighten things up back there and could change the perfect handling balance

quick fix? aftermarket bushings that have way more interference fit. or maybe if they are not glued to the bar use the bushings from a smaller size bar diameter so the interference fit will be much increased. this will fuck up the ride a little tho.

hope that helps. Jeff
Cool, thanks for the info.
Just wondering though, does this "problem" cause anything to wear out prematurely or can it cause other problems?
 

2112

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I was at my dealer on Saturday for an oil change. I asked for an update on the suspension issue, no update. I updated the service writer on what the forum is saying and the tech that worked on my clunking happened to be walking by. He does not think it is the sway bar and is pretty certain it is a shock problem and it seems Honda is well aware of it. I think it is just a matter of Honda biting the bullet and upgrading the components to something that works across all weather regions.
 

ZEEE Man

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To my Canadian friends who were thinking of contacting Honda Canada about this problem, your waisting your time.
Here is my reply for this problem:
Thank you for contacting Honda Canada and for your patience as we replied. We are sorry to note your vehicle concerns and have opened a file to document your feedback.

In response to your email, and as you are no doubt aware having owned Honda vehicles before, we take great pride in the design of our vehicles and we strive to manufacture and design products that will perform to our rigid standards. Most of them do in fact perform satisfactorily and in many cases, outperform our customers’ expectations. On the other hand, despite very careful inspection procedures, there occasionally will be some components that may require servicing. Please be assured that our Honda dealerships have access to our technical resources to ensure all concerns and issues are addressed accordingly.

It is important to note that our products are covered by one of the best comprehensive warranties in the industry and your vehicle has a great majority of its warranty remaining. We are confident it will offer you the necessary coverage and protection against manufacturing defects. We apologize for any frustrations this situation has caused you.

We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and for allowing us the opportunity to respond. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reply directly to this email.

Sincerely,

Jane G.
Correspondence Specialist, Customer Relations
Honda Canada Inc.
Toll free: 1-888-946-6329, ext. 3306
[email protected]
Monday—Friday, 8 AM—7:30 PM EST
 


SI_honda_2k17

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To my Canadian friends who were thinking of contacting Honda Canada about this problem, your waisting your time.
Here is my reply for this problem:
Thank you for contacting Honda Canada and for your patience as we replied. We are sorry to note your vehicle concerns and have opened a file to document your feedback.

In response to your email, and as you are no doubt aware having owned Honda vehicles before, we take great pride in the design of our vehicles and we strive to manufacture and design products that will perform to our rigid standards. Most of them do in fact perform satisfactorily and in many cases, outperform our customers’ expectations. On the other hand, despite very careful inspection procedures, there occasionally will be some components that may require servicing. Please be assured that our Honda dealerships have access to our technical resources to ensure all concerns and issues are addressed accordingly.

It is important to note that our products are covered by one of the best comprehensive warranties in the industry and your vehicle has a great majority of its warranty remaining. We are confident it will offer you the necessary coverage and protection against manufacturing defects. We apologize for any frustrations this situation has caused you.

We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and for allowing us the opportunity to respond. Should you have further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to reply directly to this email.

Sincerely,

Jane G.
Correspondence Specialist, Customer Relations
Honda Canada Inc.
Toll free: 1-888-946-6329, ext. 3306
[email protected]
Monday—Friday, 8 AM—7:30 PM EST
Blah bla blah
 

twistedneck

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I was at my dealer on Saturday for an oil change. I asked for an update on the suspension issue, no update. I updated the service writer on what the forum is saying and the tech that worked on my clunking happened to be walking by. He does not think it is the sway bar and is pretty certain it is a shock problem and it seems Honda is well aware of it. I think it is just a matter of Honda biting the bullet and upgrading the components to something that works across all weather regions.
Shock problem this closely associated with cold temps? that means the rubber bumper internal to the twin tube shock (or some other rubber stop) is somehow ultra sensitive to temperatures and making a clunk. I have never heard that from a shock when cold vs. warm, but i'm only 49 so its always possible!

I bugged a bunch of the suspected swaybar assembly engineers and they avoided me like the plague so I think i'm on the right track. I'll be seeing all of my competitor suppliers tomorrow morning so its going to be a chance to pin down exactly what engineer made it and then be like 'dood.. you do now about this horrific f'd up noise from your part" that should get his attention.

now, as for TheComebackKid's question does it do any wear or damage, nope.. Its actually very OK functionally and is simply less rubber preload on the bar / bushing interface resulting in play - and that play only makes noise when the rubber is cold / hard as a rock and the play is increased also due to the cold.

Its very possible something else is making noise down there and if I can't get them to admit the issue tomorrow i'll have to wait for the cold again to re-create it in our lab / hoist area - cold day drive around come in - unbolt swabar assy - then go back out, noise gone? all set, diagnosed.
 

civicdabest-foo

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I didn't read the full thread history, but reading the words clunking sound and suspension rang a bell in my head. One of my rear struts blew without my notice. I started to hear a thunking sound in the back every time I went over a bump, I blew it off as the spare tire having loosened in its compartment and bouncing up and down..... until oil change shop noticed strut was leaking oil. Honda replaced the strut under warranty and thunking sound no more.

I'd check the struts if you hear a thunking sound.
 

twistedneck

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update. - that meeting where the main engineering director guy was there happened. i emailed him 5 yes five times directly over the last two months about this. zero response.

so i waited after and said heyi’m jeff check! you probably saw my emails huh? he said he was not sure stuck in mexico. uh huh no email there. he then said he was not even sure if they made the part. again. hmm. so i said just throw me a bone man. if i get no response i’ll try again. then run the test this winter.

it’s still entirely possible it’s a pair shock bushings that also freeze below 30F and behave in a similar way, but very unlikely.

i’ll get this one figured out!






Shock problem this closely associated with cold temps? that means the rubber bumper internal to the twin tube shock (or some other rubber stop) is somehow ultra sensitive to temperatures and making a clunk. I have never heard that from a shock when cold vs. warm, but i'm only 49 so its always possible!

I bugged a bunch of the suspected swaybar assembly engineers and they avoided me like the plague so I think i'm on the right track. I'll be seeing all of my competitor suppliers tomorrow morning so its going to be a chance to pin down exactly what engineer made it and then be like 'dood.. you do now about this horrific f'd up noise from your part" that should get his attention.

now, as for TheComebackKid's question does it do any wear or damage, nope.. Its actually very OK functionally and is simply less rubber preload on the bar / bushing interface resulting in play - and that play only makes noise when the rubber is cold / hard as a rock and the play is increased also due to the cold.

Its very possible something else is making noise down there and if I can't get them to admit the issue tomorrow i'll have to wait for the cold again to re-create it in our lab / hoist area - cold day drive around come in - unbolt swabar assy - then go back out, noise gone? all set, diagnosed.
 

milk_jug

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Rsr springs with whiteline rear sway, clunks like crazy back there. Especially noticeable when rolling slow through parking lots.
 


kill_you1

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Rsr springs with whiteline rear sway, clunks like crazy back there. Especially noticeable when rolling slow through parking lots.
Same Problem. 2017 Civic Si 4 Door Sedan. I have Stock Springs/Struts, Whiteline Rear Sway Bar, Godspeed Project Camber Arms and Godspeed Project Rear Toe Arms
 

YankeeSi

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i also have clunking at slow speeds with my whiteline rear sway and whiteline adjustable endlinks. I just ordered accord endlinks.
PN:52320-TLB-A00
Hopefully this fixes the issue.
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