HONDA FULL SYNTHETIC or ULTIMATE FULL Synthetic? What do you recommend?

dallasjhawk said:

Here you go, direct from the 2016+ Honda Civic owners manual. You'll notice it says recommended, which just like fuel recommendations. I think we all know the difference in recommended and required. I've highlighted the pertinent paragraph but I will point out "oil of SUITABLE viscosity for the ambient temperature shown" As you can see, 0-20 covers all temp ranges, just like 0-16 will only thinner. So if you live in a climate that is warmer and doesn't get to -20 degrees you can use a different viscosity for your climate. And if you research further, you will see 5w-30 covers those same temp ranges, looking at the second pic. So what does this tell us, they are thinning the oil for epa purposes but it protects for the same temp ranges.

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Well once heated a 20 weight is recommended. Why would you want to go thicker when 20 is sufficient. To get proper circulation the engineers are basically saying the engine was designed for 20 weight. Putting 30 weight reduces circulation and also causes more friction therefore reducing gas mileage. Yes a 30 weight would work, but so does 20. Just with the 20 you will get the same protection but better mileage. But that’s just my opinion. These newer engines are built with tight tolerances and 0w-20 is plenty protection

mvela said:

Well once heated a 20 weight is recommended. Why would you want to go thicker when 20 is sufficient. To get proper circulation the engineers are basically saying the engine was designed for 20 weight. Putting 30 weight reduces circulation and also causes more friction therefore reducing gas mileage. Yes a 30 weight would work, but so does 20. Just with the 20 you will get the same protection but better mileage. But that’s just my opinion. These newer engines are built with tight tolerances and 0w-20 is plenty protection

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Proof of tighter tolerances? And "plenty of protection" is your guess. 20 got Honda what they needed, good mpgs and sufficient protection for a wide range of types of driving. They made a smaller engine with a turbo to help with mpg and EPA, and again, 20 is water, Its the thinnest they could go for MPG and EPA CAFE, why heat it up driving the crap out of it in hot weather when a 30 will work better for me Anyhow, I have my blackstone analysis ordered. I know my driving style and conditions Ill do me, you do you. Im not telling anyone what to run, but this whole " The engineers know better than you" is a terrible argument. They do what Honda tells them to do and they work within the confines of that box Honda puts them in

dallasjhawk said:

Proof of tighter tolerances? And "plenty of protection" is your guess. 20 got Honda what they needed, good mpgs and sufficient protection for a wide range of types of driving. They made a smaller engine with a turbo to help with mpg and EPA, and again, 20 is water, Its the thinnest they could go for MPG and EPA CAFE, why heat it up driving the crap out of it in hot weather when a 30 will work better for me Anyhow, I have my blackstone analysis ordered. I know my driving style and conditions Ill do me, you do you. Im not telling anyone what to run, but this whole " The engineers know better than you" is a terrible argument. They do what Honda tells them to do and they work within the confines of that box Honda puts them in

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Yeah you do what makes you feel comfortable. I am just going by every vehicle I’ve owned. I’ve always used what was recommended and never had any issues. Just like my 97 Silverado. I used the recommended 5w-30 in it while everybody was saying that was too thin. I got 250,000 miles out of that truck before I sold it and never had an issue. And trust me I beat the piss out of that truck lol. But that engine never failed me. So that’s why I say I will always stick to the manufacturers recommended oil, because in my experience it’s been proven time and time again. And trust me people kept saying the same thing, that Chevy was trying to get better mileage out of the truck. Well needless to say, they were wrong. But like I said, it all comes down to what makes you feel confident when driving your car. But maybe you can read this article: https://blog.amsoil.com/what-happens-if-i-use-the-wrong-weight-viscosity-of-oil/

Mikey1 said:

why are you quoting toyota specs?

this is a honda forum,

nothing from toyota applies to our vehicles,

show me somewhere where honda states what you are you saying

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In your rush to try and be cool guy and call me out for talking Toyota on a Honda site, Perhaps you missed the next post down? AND I even said here is this proof while I go find my Honda proof. Its relevant in that they are using an even thinner oil and you can still use a different viscosity based on your climate. Its common across all makes of cars, because it based on how lubricants work. link to the next post you missed where I show you the proof, and just in case you miss the link here it is again, right out of your honda civic owners manual https://www.civicx.com/threads/hond...hat-do-you-recommend.35509/page-2#post-598297

For the love of.... someone who is claiming that everyone should just use a 0w-20 because Honda says so please explain why other markets give options for higher viscosity oils. I'm guessing you cannot.

From the non-USDM manual:

fenix-silver said:

For the love of.... someone who is claiming that everyone should just use a 0w-20 because Honda says so please explain why other markets give options for higher viscosity oils. I'm guessing you cannot.

From the non-USDM manual:

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but TOLERANCES YOOOOOOO. thank you for that pertinent information to the 1.5t i will add it to my screenshot folder on my cloud.

USDM engines are tight yo!

Mikey1 said:

Use the grade of oil on your oil cap....it is marked that way for a reason, it's really simple, not sure why people try to make it so difficult

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Yet you can't answer the question as to why different markets allow various weight oils.

fenix-silver said:

Yet you can't answer the question as to why different markets allow various weight oils.

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depends on the ambient temperature and how dusty the environment is. Also commercial availability

Mikey1 said:

Use the grade of oil on your oil cap....it is marked that way for a reason, it's really simple, not sure why people try to make it so difficult

If your brake master cylinder says "dot 3" fluid, that is what you should be using, same goes for your oil

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youll probably try to tell me Im an idiot for putting 93 octane in my car to right?

Dot 4 is compatible w/ Dot 3 and offers a higher boiling point. Plenty of guys run Dot 4 or compatible fluid for track duty or if they do lots of spirited driving. Saying that you should use Dot 3 because that's what the car calls for completely disregards individual circumstances, just like saying just to blindly use 0W-20 w/o considering alternatives.

mvela said:

Well once heated a 20 weight is recommended. Why would you want to go thicker when 20 is sufficient. To get proper circulation the engineers are basically saying the engine was designed for 20 weight. Putting 30 weight reduces circulation and also causes more friction therefore reducing gas mileage. Yes a 30 weight would work, but so does 20. Just with the 20 you will get the same protection but better mileage. But that’s just my opinion. These newer engines are built with tight tolerances and 0w-20 is plenty protection

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I have run Mobil 1 0-40 and didn't notice anything unusual with temps, performance, or mileage. Wear metals also came back fine. If there was damage done, the report didn't show any. I suspect because there was no issue running it in this engine. I normally run m1 0/30 AFE with similar wear results.
If I was stock, I would likely just stick to 0/20.

fenix-silver said:

Dot 4 is compatible w/ Dot 3 and offers a higher boiling point. Plenty of guys run Dot 4 or compatible fluid for track duty or if they do lots of spirited driving. Saying that you should use Dot 3 because that's what the car calls for completely disregards individual circumstances, just like saying just to blindly use 0W-20 w/o considering alternatives.

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DoT3 means that dealerships only have to stock one brake fluid for all Honda's regardless of vintage. Some older Hondas used braking systems with SBR (styrene-butadiene rubber) seals; SBR can swell/soften with some DoT4 or higher fluids.

Honda's DoT3 actually offers a higher dry boiling point than spec DoT4. IIRC, it is rated at 550F dry. Mind you, dry boiling point quickly becomes irrelevant in favour of wet boiling point unless you flush brake fluid often.

However, the DoT4 spec for -40F/C viscosity is also slightly higher (worse) than the DoT3 spec. As you state, individual circumstances matter. I live in a cold climate so extreme cold performance matters to me - so I use DoT5.1 in winter as it is thinner than DoT3 and DoT4 in extreme cold. (In the summer I use Motul RBF600, a DoT4 fluid - although I'd stay with DoT5.1 all-year-round in a street car.) A higher viscosity could cause cavitation in the Type-R's ABS pump in extremely cold temperatures. Please note that I know nothing about ABS in other CivicX; the Type R has completely different ABS and ABS pump.

Specification limits from Motul:

TEST Unit DOT 3 DOT 4 DOT 5.1 RBF600
Dry boiling point °C >205 >230 >260 312 (594°F)
Wet boiling point °C >140 >155 >180 204 (399°F)
Viscosity@-40°C/°F mm²/s <1500 <1800 <900 1750

Mikey1 said:

no...i would not say your an idiot for doing that,

i would simply tell you that you are wasting your money, that's all,

if you enjoy throwing your money away, and spending more money on fuel then what is necessary, then that's your choice to make,

personally i like to save my money......93 octane isn't doing anything for you that 87 can not do[/QUOTE]

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Im going to say this as nicely as possible. You really shouldnt be talking cars at all. 93 octane has a higher knock tolerance first of all so 87 cant do that. 2nd this can beneficial for high compression Forced Inductions engines especially ones that are tuned. So again for me, there are huge benefits to using 93.

Mikey1 said:

believe whatever you want to believe,

your just buying into nonsense that you have read, and your gullible enough to believe it,

waste your money all you want, i dont really care,

your car wouldn't run any different using 87 octane....its all in your head

try it out sometime, you will be surprised, your car will run exactly the same, and you will save money too

if your car doesn't run correctly using 87 octane, then 93 octane isnt going to help, and it wont fix your issues

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Um you clearly dont listen. do you even have any idea how knock control works on our cars? Let me explain to you. knock control is a function the ECU uses to protect the motor from knocking and causing damage. Factory knock control is set somewhere around .9 or 90%. When you tune, the tune is made to take advantage of higher octane fuel that better protects against knock through higher detonation tolerances. If you fill a car with 93, our knock control will be in the .49 range and take full advantage of the power the tune makes. If you fill with a lower octane fuel, the ECU sees this and knock control will rise to protect the engine, it does this by pulling ign and making less power. So as you can see, its not in my head. Its an actual real thing. Oh and you know the Sport hatch and Sport Touring Hatch, they both recommend 91+ as well, because they make 180 hp instead of the the 174 hp the non Sport turbos make. Why does it make more?????? OCTANE.