The Sedan is the Safest Body Style

Gruber

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While we can argue which 10th gen Civic is safest, there's no doubt about one thing. All modern cars are tremendously safer than "classic" cars...

This video shows very clearly why the hoods are so flimsy today. They never play any role in protecting the occupants, to the contrary, can only do harm. In today's cars the hood immediately bends, even in a light collision. The old-fashioned strong hoods don't help at all, but they can actually survive a head-on crash almost intact, like in this video.
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charleswrivers

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While we can argue which 10th gen Civic is safest, there's no doubt about one thing. All modern cars are tremendously safer than "classic" cars...

Wow... I never wanted to be in a new Malibu more... until I imagined tooling around in a cool Chevy Belair and having to run into one.

The offset collisions have drastically improved even here pretty recently on cars. That was one of the big reasons I got the Odyssey. It did really well when they started looking at testing. The ones that do poorly look like they just about shear the car and, while one person in the front may be spared, the other is D-E-D dead.
 

RobbJK88

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This thread reminds me of a crash test video i saw of a 95 honda civic (sedan) being t-boned by a full size SUV. I drove an identical civic in high school. Back then, there were no mid-door support beams. The SUV literally ripped the civic in half, like it wasn't even there. Compared to the new civics that i've seen in similar tests that it barely even causes the interior panels to budge. Regardless of minor structural differences between body styles i for one am glad the cars are so much safer compared to just 20 years ago.
 
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Victor1507

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if the sedan was to be equally strong as the coupe and hatchback, it would need to be heavier. Honda didn't want to make one body significantly heavier, so to make it equally strong they had to use a stronger material in critical places.
Why do you think the sedan structure is weaker? Do you have a source for this? According to IIHS, the sedan's roof can support almost 3000 pounds more than the coupe can, before crushing the same amount.

You would need to know the dimensions of all elements. More, thicker, heavier ordinary steel will do the same job as less, thinner but stronger steel. The need to add more expensive material proves one thing: that the structure would be too weak or too heavy without it.
There is not more steel in the coupe and hatchback. It is the same thickness, just a weaker material. Honda probably gave the sedan stronger rear frame rails because people are more likely to sit in the back than in a coupe or hatchback.
 
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Gruber

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Why do you think the sedan structure is weaker? Do you have a source for this? According to IIHS, the sedan's roof can support almost 3000 pounds more than the coupe can, before crushing the same amount.



There is not more steel in the coupe and hatchback. It is the same thickness, just a weaker material. Honda probably gave the sedan stronger rear frame rails because people are more likely to sit in the back than in a coupe or hatchback.
It seems from those drawings that the sedan and and the hatchback are the versions with moonroof and the coupe without. Why? The coupe seems to have additional ribs where the moonroof would be. At what place were they pushing the roof? The difference of about 20% is not great. To me it's the same. Without that stronger steel it might be 30% weaker than the coupe and be below the minimum they want to satisfy. Would the results be different if they pushed a different spot? Why did IIHS get identical (to one pound out of 15829) max force for the sedan and the hatchback? Seems extremely unlikely, so either there is a mistake or I don't understand what they did.

The safety ratings are the same, so I still believe the reason Honda put reinforcements in the sedan is because this shape/size has the weakest geometry. That they would have the idea to protect rear passengers in the sedan but not the hatchback doesn't make any sense..
 


gtman

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There's something I'd like to point out in the sedan versus hatchback argument. Have you ever noticed that hatchbacks weigh more than their sedan brethren even though they tend to be shorter in length? So, why is that?

A couple reasons. One, the large glass hatch. Glass is heavy. And two, safety. Compared to a sedan, by it's very nature, the hatchback body structure is less stiff in the back. The reason? That huge open area that is so great for hauling cargo makes it weaker than a sedan with that solid rear shelf back there. So, manufacturer's need to beef up that open area on hatches to get them to the same level of safety as a sedan. I think that's part of the reason you see those huge C pillars on hatchbacks.

As far as which gen X Civic is safer, they are all safe. It's just that each body style needs to be designed slightly differently to get to the same standard of safety.
 
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Hollywoo0220

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"Length" of a structure is the factor that is being reinforced.
The longer the structure is, the more the reinforcement is braced along the path.
It has to do with Lateral / Torsional Rigidity.

Additionally, rigidity plays a key role in how a vehicle behaves (reacts to):
Bending and Torsion
Lateral / Longitudinal Loading
and
Asymmetric Loading

All of the models meet the same Safety Standard; however, the sedan will have a different Lateral Stress load than a coupe or HB - simply due to the length.
 
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Gruber

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There's something I'd like to point out in the sedan versus hatchback argument. Have you ever noticed that hatchbacks weigh more than their sedan brethren even though they tend to be shorter in length? So, why is that?

A couple reasons. One, the large glass hatch. Glass is heavy. And two, safety. Compared to a sedan, by it's very nature, the hatchback body structure is less stiff. The reason? That huge open area that is so great for hauling cargo makes it weaker than a sedan with that solid rear shelf in the back. So, manufacturer's need to beef up that open area on hatches to get them to the same level of safety as a sedan. I think that's part of the reason you see those huge C pillars on hatchbacks.

As far as which gen X Civic is safer, they are all safe. It's just that each body style needs to be designed slightly differently to get to the same standard of safety.

Agree. These are just different structures, and each has stronger elements in slightly different places. All around the hatch opening in the body is a solid frame with sheet steel bent at sharp angle (edge) that's simply not present in the sedan. It looks/ feels quite rigid. The hatch is heavy, and it is is attached to the roof. The rear of the roof, covered by the hatch, where the hatch hinges are bolted, is thick. There is nothing like that in the sedan roof.
 

Rickmeister 48

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I just wish people would stop being idiots and texting and drinking and driving or just plain acting stupid so we could eliminate the possibility of having to test out a lot of this information :( End of rant for the day.
 
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Victor1507

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It seems from those drawings that the sedan and and the hatchback are the versions with moonroof and the coupe without. Why? The coupe seems to have additional ribs where the moonroof would be. At what place were they pushing the roof? The difference of about 20% is not great. To me it's the same. Without that stronger steel it might be 30% weaker than the coupe and be below the minimum they want to satisfy. Would the results be different if they pushed a different spot? Why did IIHS get identical (to one pound out of 15829) max force for the sedan and the hatchback? Seems extremely unlikely, so either there is a mistake or I don't understand what they did.
IIHS tested the LX trim of the coupe and sedan, so neither one had the sunroof. The machine pushed on the front corner of the roof. They didn't test the hatchback, I guess because the roof structure is similar to the sedan.

Sedan:
Honda Civic 10th gen The Sedan is the Safest Body Style {filename}


Coupe:
Honda Civic 10th gen The Sedan is the Safest Body Style {filename}


Here is a rear crash test of the sedan: and hatchback: .

View attachment 143885

View attachment 143886
 
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gtman

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Honda Civic 10th gen The Sedan is the Safest Body Style 8d739be2-c947-4b38-bfdd-4ca7626a5d9a-BridgebarriercollapseTDOTChattanooga


Well, we now definitely know the hatch is safe! I drive mostly highways with lots of overpasses and that fallen bridge pic is downright scary.
 

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