2018 Premium Audio System

calonzo said:

Just curious, why did you choose to use max output level instead of a normal listening volume level? Wouldn't that be more in line with what we are hearing?

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As far as the AMPS are concerned, running at MAX should not make them any worse than say at 50%. Should be the same.
If it does, then there is something seriously wrong with the amps.

So the amp test I am doing as High as I can, with the highest output (at whatever frequency that occurs at), without clipping.

With speakers eliminated from the measurements, the point is to see why there is such a lack of Flatness, across the desired Amp's Bandwidth, and what that bandwidth is.

None of this accurate info, or specifications, seem to be available from Hondas/Mitsubishi for this head Unit/ Amp combination. Honda just call it a "450W Premium Audio Systems", which means technically basically NOTHING but sale hype.


When it comes to the actual Speaker tests, then yes, normal listening levels will be more appropriate, but I will probably do 50% and Max, just to see how things deteriorate towards maximum (unclipped) levels.



And yes, I have my GEEK mode turned on for this project

very useful topic, good job!
does the center speaker output music, when DTS is turned off?
never thought, it would lol.

MrWaYne said:

very useful topic, good job!
does the center speaker output music, when DTS is turned off?
never thought, it would lol.

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Center Speaker is an INTERESTING One

From what I have gathered so far (needs to be 100% verified)
Center speaker is NOT "Left + Right"
Instead it seem to be the part of the Left and the part of the right that is the same, which is really very cool, so it is a true "Center" derived from the Stereo pair.

I need to check 100% that this is not a function of DTS.
( I am still under a steep learning curve with this)

Using the Honda hacked Head unit as the sound source, with a nice Function Generator app, there are lots of option to control what is fed Individually to Left & Right channels, as well as their individual frequencies, and PHASES !!

The Center has added to it the Nav & a few other car sounds.

Which apps are you running?

Confirmed, Music comes out of the Center speaker, no matter setting of DTS.
DTS has a Fuller, slightly "Large Hall" effect when on. (at least wrt to the Center)

If however, the stereo music source has Left and no Right in it content, nothing comes out of the center, (and vice versa) .. The more the same music waveform is present on both left & right channels, the more of it comes out of the center. (Nav being Mono, comes out at 100% its volume in the center)

Triple_peaz said:

Which apps are you running?

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Function Generator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

just out of curiosity:
is the signal for the rear speakers different, compared to the front system? (regarding bass)
in case you want to add a subwoofer by tapping a speaker, which signal should i pick?

MrWaYne said:

just out of curiosity:
is the signal for the rear speakers different, compared to the front system? (regarding bass)
in case you want to add a subwoofer by tapping a speaker, which signal should i pick?

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I'm waiting for the answer to this as well. I assume we'll get there once @SCOPESYS completes testing. Very curious to see what the sub plot looks like with DTS off. Mine does sound noticibly better with DTS off, but it does seem like the crossover rolls off way too low.

BREAKTHROUGH !!

I got my LC2I this morning and tried it out. Interesting Results.

Connecting the LCi2 to the Honda Sub out does you little good.
The Honda Sub Bandwidth lies within the LCi2 bandwidth, so all you gain is amplified Honda SUB, which already can more than drive to full power.

A far better way to use the LC2I is to process the Left & Right Honda Speaker outputs, and then "optionally" combine that with the Honda Sub speaker output, and feed that to your amp.

Doing so, increased your Honda Sub bandwidth from 8Hz - 40Hz, to a new Combined Bandwidth of 8Hz to 80Hz, with potentially some control of the 8-40 and 40-80 gains.

(would require a few resistors and a couple of pots.. but simple enough for anyone to build themselves with decent instructions)

VERY EXCITING..

Now, I have not even LISTENED to this yet, but the Scope Measurements indicate that this could be a Game Changer, as far as the Honda SUBs are concerned.

Ideally, the SUB high frequency cut-off should be higher, more like 120-150Hz, but this also might be possible with additional mixing of filtered Honda speaker outputs.

If you have a LC2i system already installed, you can try this out by feeding your LCi2 with the Left and the Right (instead of the Sub), (run a temporary 2 pair of Left & Right wires from the Honda amp to the LC2I) and see if you like it !!!

I don't really think that the LCi2 was designed to AMPLIFY an existing Sub Speaker Channel, but rather to take a normal left & right channel speakers, and act as a low pass filter, to "create" a SUB channel.

Can't resist it .. screw the warranty -- got to MOD the LCi2 to get it's Sub Output cut-off up a little higher, like 200Hz or even 300Hz !! Then we are talking some serious "Audible" SUB BASS !!

-- 1/2 hour later -- Warranty semi-voided ?
Have not attacked it with a soldering iron yet, and changed any components.
Got my eyes on a few "Filter Circuit" Capacitors already !!



It's all ANALOGUE !! No fancy Digital programmed DSP programming ..
Just simple Op Amp Filter circuits
Should not be too difficult to alter the "Sub Out" Bandwidth, or even make it "adjustable" with an additional pot.

All the hard work is done by using the LcI2 -- and just like the Honda Civics -- the fun starts with the Modding !!!

Anyone tried their Lc2i feeding their Sub amp from sub out, with input from Left and Right , (instead of input from Sub) ??
Using CENTER is not a good idea as its lower frequencies are above the high end of the Lc2I low pass filter.

Please comment -- Better or worse ?

MrWaYne said:

just out of curiosity:
is the signal for the rear speakers different, compared to the front system? (regarding bass)
in case you want to add a subwoofer by tapping a speaker, which signal should i pick?

Click to expand...

At the moment I am ASSUMING they are the same (will be testing that next to confirm -
( you know what they say about ASSuming )

Two advantages of using the REAR speakers as the source to the Lci2 would be.:-

(1) Close to trunk, where you probably have the Lci2 and the amp for the sub.

(2) Assuming, your primary concern is for sound delivered to the Driver & Front Seat Passenger, you can vary what is fed to the Lc2I's left & right inputs, and the resulting filtered Sub Output level to some extent by varying the amount of the balance you transfer to the rear. Obviously having the optional KLc2I's remote, adds even more flexibility.

A thought on Connecting the Lc2i. (Theory - not actually tested yet)

The instructions tell you to connect its input to the Speaker output of your oem Amp.

If you do connect it to the Sub output (something I am not currently recommending), it implies that you no longer have a sub speaker connected to that output... you have dumped the Honda Sub speaker, and will be installing a new speaker to your new sub amp.

If you connect the Lci2 to the (say REAR) speaker, you keep the speakers connected, and tap off the speaker wires to the Lc2i.

So in Sub connection case the Honda Amp only has the 20K ohm load of the Lc2i connected to it.
In the Rear left & Right connection case, the Honda Amp still has the speaker's 4 ohm load connected ( + the 20K Ohm load of the Lc2i, which is not significant)

Getting back to oem Honda Amp.

The Power Output stages in this amp has detection circuitry to detect.
(a) Short Circuit
(2) Open Circuit
(3) Over temperature of the Power Amp chip.

In the case where the Honda Sub has been disconnected from the Honda amp, all the Honda Sub amp sees as a load is the 20K ohm of the Lci2, which it will consider to be an Open Circuit. Depending on how that amp is used in the Honda unit, it may well shut down in a fault condition, if that feature has been enabled ??
Putting a Load Resistor on the Sub Output when connecting the Lc2i would prevent that. (assuming Mitsubish are using this feature of the Amp output devices)

From TDA7569BLV spec sheet.
Min Load Resistance = 1.5ohm ( less than 1.5 ohm is detected as a Short)
Max Load Resistance = 85 Ohms (greater than 85 Ohms is detected as an Open)

A 75 Ohm (2 - 5 Watt) resistor should be enough to fool the Amp that it has a load and is easily wired into the screw terminals on the Lci2 where the Honda Amp Sub speaker output is connected.
(need only be 2 Watt, as it is 75 Ohm - NOT 4 Ohm ! -
No need for a 50W 4 Ohm resistor !!! )


This would apply as well to the Honda Sub Output if the LcI2 was being connected to the
Left & Right rear speakers. The Honda Sub output still want to see a load to prevent the amp from potentially shutting down.

SCOPESYS said:

Anyone tried their Lc2i feeding their Sub amp from sub out, with input from Left and Right , (instead of input from Sub) ??
Using CENTER is not a good idea as its lower frequencies are above the high end of the Lc2I low pass filter.

Please comment -- Better or worse ?

Click to expand...

In a few of the old sub threads, they were taking the left or right and combining with the sub channel to get a more full bass bandwidth

86salmon said:

In a few of the old sub threads, they were taking the left or right and combining with the sub channel to get a more full bass bandwidth

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Thanks .. If you were using the Lc2i, I am thinking feeding both Left & right into it, and then taking the output, and with a Resistor network, add the Lc2i output to the Honda Sub output, and feed that through to the new Sub amp.

In an Ideal world , your Mono Sub Map would have more than one mixing input , in which case, no need for the resistive adder, just a resistive attenuator to cut down the Honda sub output a little !!

I'll try to find those threads and see what they were coming up with.. sounds like they were on to a good solution.