Did Something Blow Up?!

Design

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There's some confusion here that I'd like to clarify. The engine isn't being replaced by Honda warranty as it was damaged due to negligence of the mechanic that worked on the car. Honda Canada isn't going to pay for the parts or labour replacement. The dealer is footing the bill 100% and claiming it under their corporate insurance.

Honda won't be inspecting anything as part of this whole ordeal.
I agree. But I suspect the dealer initially ran this up the chain to determine their options. Some manufacturers request further data for R&D and/or help determine what led to the failure. And with the 1.5T being a HUGE component of Honda's future roadmap, I could see HOJ taking interest.

(Random thoughts based on a few discussions with PM's here at Torrance a while back) :)
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charleswrivers

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Unfortunately for the owners (and fortunately for the parts hunter), there appear to be quite a large number of 2017/2018 civics being totaled in the USA, often with quite low mileage. (Deduce what you want from that !!)
The difficulty is, locating them, and then being able to purchase the, and transport them, especially if you are not a licensed auto shop/dealer.

ie
https://iaai-tools.com/show/SHHFK7H55JU?page=1
The head unit I recently purchased on Ebay come form a totaled 2018 SI Coupe.
(Using the XM-Radio code, I was able to track down the Vin#, and it was auctioned on the above auction and listed on their website.)




Trying to find a used 1987 Nissan Maxima Wagon for parts is far more of a challenge !! (Took me almost a year in 2018 to find one that was not totally rusted out)
Same year and Model - slightly different paint .. Parts car is on the left.( had been left unused in owners garage for 15 years !!)




20180907_163246.jpg

8-15-2018 phone 025.JPG


The "Not so good" side of the Parts car ... :( (Luckily the previous owner was not hurt , but car was way beyond ecconomic repair -- even if one could get the parts)
I had an '84 NA 300zx that had a blown engine that sat awhile I bought for $250 in around '99 or '00 and had my folks AAA tow to my house as a parts car. It was before eBay took off, or at least I knew of it, but it was money well spent for random parts. I *still* have a box of Z31 parts and a set of '86 turbo rims (big beautiful steel boat anchors) I keep Incase I buy another.

A 10 year old car is super easy to get used parts, and a lot of the places have used eBay for the U-pull aspect has gone to an internet pick. I did buy some trim pieces for my Z32 and a switch assembly last year.

One reason I gave up on '80s cars and started going to '90' cars, so far as Z's were concerned was the availability of parts. The New Old Stock (NOS) parts for cars 25 years or more is about gone or crazy expensive, and they left the junkyards to go to scrap metal... so I hear you. The old Z31s used to be stupid cheap and easy to get parts for in the '90s/early 00s when I had 2 running ones and a parts car at one time. Now, they're less cheap and finding parts is a PITA. Z32 parts are expensive, but there is a lot of common parts mechanically shared with Maxima's so far as the motor is concerned... so that's a plus. I want to keep it a long time and figure when the Navy game is done and it's a 30 year old car.. I'll give it a good going over one more time and let it go as long as it wants to go. I put too much money in it as it is to sell it and know I'll never get another and the later Z's never interested me. They played second string to the GTRs that got the turbos and HICAS AWS that the Z32 had.

OP, that does make sense the dealer had to pay based on the engine failure being due to their actions. I'm glad it wasn't a fight. This is the 2nd if not 3rd oil thread I've seen where a dealer oil change resulted in a oil plug coming out and an engine getting destroyed over it. On the last one I saw, they doubly destroyed it. When that OP had the car towed to the dealer, they started up the car once it was off the tow truck to drive it into a bay.
 

dallasjhawk

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Unfortunately for the owners (and fortunately for the parts hunter), there appear to be quite a large number of 2017/2018 civics being totaled in the USA, often with quite low mileage. (Deduce what you want from that !!)
The difficulty is, locating them, and then being able to purchase the, and transport them, especially if you are not a licensed auto shop/dealer.

ie
https://iaai-tools.com/show/SHHFK7H55JU?page=1
The head unit I recently purchased on Ebay come form a totaled 2018 SI Coupe.
(Using the XM-Radio code, I was able to track down the Vin#, and it was auctioned on the above auction and listed on their website.)




Trying to find a used 1987 Nissan Maxima Wagon for parts is far more of a challenge !! (Took me almost a year in 2018 to find one that was not totally rusted out)
Same year and Model - slightly different paint .. Parts car is on the left.( had been left unused in owners garage for 15 years !!)




20180907_163246.jpg

8-15-2018 phone 025.JPG


The "Not so good" side of the Parts car ... :( (Luckily the previous owner was not hurt , but car was way beyond ecconomic repair -- even if one could get the parts)
I deduce that there are are more than 325k Civics a year sold a year so having a decent amount of totaled cars is expected. Add in another 380k CRVs and there is a lot of used 1.5t l15b engines sitting in yards to be had for cheap.
 

charleswrivers

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I agree. But I suspect the dealer initially ran this up the chain to determine their options. Some manufacturers request further data for R&D and/or help determine what led to the failure. And with the 1.5T being a HUGE component of Honda's future roadmap, I could see HOJ taking interest.

(Random thoughts based on a few discussions with PM's here at Torrance a while back) :)
Oh yeah... the 3 vehicles share the motor and they're already having to face the oil dilution stuff... whether it affects all of them badly based on any slight build variances, environment the car is in and driving style... I bet they're checking up on each and every engine failure to see if they're due to something other than some oil dilution failure. They're going to collecting data to defend themselves for current or future class action lawsuits to show the dilution issue isn't that big of a deal (whether it really is or isn't) to the best of their ability. I'm sure there's at least one soul employed by Honda USA who has a job that involves data collection of events just like this for that purpose.

I'm sure their Quality Assurance program, or equivalent, is keeping good tabs on any data points that could result in future expenses to the company.

Based on...

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/

and

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/honda/honda-civic/

They've sold over a million CRVs, a million Civics and over a quarter million Accords since 2016 and 2018 respectively, when the L15B7 got out into them. It's the only option for the CR-V I think and the volume seller be a wide margin in the Civic and Accord. I wouldn't doubt in the US alone there are 1.5 million L15B7s in the wild... every one with a turbocharger. We'll probably see another million or more make it out there until the next redesign, and that's if they don't use it again in one or more models.

Once the standard power train warranty is done and the car's have depreciated to where, w/o a warranty, it'd be 'too much money for an older car' to fix them if there's a major repair or collision damage, I think we'll have a lot of junked L15B7 powered cars for a long... long time.

So when people bring up turbocharger replacements costing thousands... I just smile because I know there will be probably 3 million TD025s... some 11 vane... but many 9 vane (CRVs were all 9 vane, same as the Si) spilling into the junkyard shortly. And unlike a Z32, where you pretty much pull the engine to do turbos... you can do a Civics turbo in an afternoon to evening with a basic tool kit.
 

charleswrivers

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I deduce that there are are more than 325k Civics a year sold a year so having a decent amount of totaled cars is expected. Add in another 380k CRVs and there is a lot of used 1.5t l15b engines sitting in yards to be had for cheap.
You beat me to it... :thumbsup:
 


OP
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OP, that does make sense the dealer had to pay based on the engine failure being due to their actions. I'm glad it wasn't a fight. This is the 2nd if not 3rd oil thread I've seen where a dealer oil change resulted in a oil plug coming out and an engine getting destroyed over it. On the last one I saw, they doubly destroyed it. When that OP had the car towed to the dealer, they started up the car once it was off the tow truck to drive it into a bay.
That is just what i was told, i'm not sure what the actual technicalities of it was. The best part is the engine was started at the dealer, for the tow truck driver and the tow truck driver also revved it out trying to get it out of the snowbank.
 

Boogs

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You are right all the way up to the used engine part. I’m not sure where that used engine came from lol. The engine is new. Originally the dealership presented it like a warranty claim and then Honda Canada discovered afterwards that it was due to negligence of the mechanic so the dealership had to take 100% of the cost.
Sometimes dealers will replace an engine with a used one (not in your situation), I should've clarified that part.
 

James3spearchucker

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Another and most likely final update!

Last week my car began to knock and overheat so I brought it back to the dealership.

Apparently according to the service manager, Honda dealerships need to get approval from Honda Canada to do major engine work on “significant vehicles such as the Si”. That includes removing the head, inspecting camshafts, removing and opening up the block etc etc.
They ripped apart my motor and found multiple bearings throughout to be destroyed. Every bearing that wasn’t destroyed was discoloured. All rods were discoloured, 2 piston rings with extreme wear, the combustion chamber walls and pistons were discoloured, the intake shaft was scored with multiple fractures, pieces of metal in the oil and the oil being a litre full of oil.

All in all the decision was made to replace the motor! They also inspected the turbo and the turbo was in “excellent condition”. Honda Canada also had requested the oil in my motor be sent to them to be analyzed. I was told the oil analysis was to determine why the excess amount of fuel since i had the recall done.

The dealership also gave me a 2018 Accord Touring with the 2.0 turbo and I have to say the Si is soooooo much better.
So the head and block both damaged ...and from fuel dilution? How did you drive it?

So is the 2.0 Accord temporary or your new ride? Why do you like the Civic more?
 
OP
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OverX

OverX

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So the head and block both damaged ...and from fuel dilution? How did you drive it?

So is the 2.0 Accord temporary or your new ride? Why do you like the Civic more?
No, as stated before it was from losing the drain bolt.

Surprisingly and I guess to Honda’s credit for making great motors, I drove it for a couple months before it began to overheat and knock.

The 2.0 Accord was the loaner while they replaced the motor. I preferred the Si much more simply because the Accord was definitely made to be a cruiser. Even putting it in sport mode and trying to push the car to its limit was by no means exhilarating or as enjoyable pushing the Si to its limit. I think a lot of this is attributable to its weight cause honestly for having the “same motor as the type r”, you wouldn’t be able to tell if you didn’t know it was the same motor in the R
 

Jk89581

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Man I was just in the same situation. Cruising about 25mph. And boom heard a pop. The car sputtered and died. Only mods I have are spacers and a short shift kit. Coated to a friend's house where a saw a trail of oil. Car wouldn't start again for a bit, but when it did it was misfiring on all cylinders and running like an old model T. They took it to the dealership today and said I put a rod thorough the block. Tech told me, and I quote "it's just one of those things, someone's it happens." I'm thinking Honda cheaped out on the engine build of the sport hatch, just like they did the interior Paris. Anyone else had this happen?
 


OP
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OverX

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Man I was just in the same situation. Cruising about 25mph. And boom heard a pop. The car sputtered and died. Only mods I have are spacers and a short shift kit. Coated to a friend's house where a saw a trail of oil. Car wouldn't start again for a bit, but when it did it was misfiring on all cylinders and running like an old model T. They took it to the dealership today and said I put a rod thorough the block. Tech told me, and I quote "it's just one of those things, someone's it happens." I'm thinking Honda cheaped out on the engine build of the sport hatch, just like they did the interior Paris. Anyone else had this happen?
Did you lose the drain bolt like I did or is it something different?
 

Jk89581

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Did you lose the drain bolt like I did or is it something different?
I don't think I lost the bolt. Wasn't but maybe a quarter of my oil on the ground.

Honda Civic 10th gen Did Something Blow Up?! 20190302_165612_HDR
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