At the track- very impressed!

Hey guys, I've tracked cars recreationally for a couple of years now and finally had a chance to get in a CTR. I'm in the Intermediate Solo run group and am by no means "Advanced".

During the last track outing my buddy let me try out his CTR during the last session. I had a couple questions for those that track though:

1) I had factory brake fluid and could smell it getting hot/ burning at the end of the session- 6/6 sessions that day. What BF do you guys use? Do you guys upgrade the brake lines as well for serious track duty?
2) What non-stock pads do you guys recommend?

Having driven the Golf R, GTI, and WRX in the recent past I'd say that this is the most fun for tight, small circuits! So much so that I'm looking to purchase one this Spring.

I use Redline RL-600 brake fluid in my track car. Motul is another popular synthetic high temp brake fluid.

Jotun said:

I use Redline RL-600 brake fluid in my track car. Motul is another popular synthetic high temp brake fluid.

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Is it OK to use DOT-4 fluid in our cars? I know the manual says DOT-3 only, and no one seems to actually know if that's fine or not.

I used ATE super amber in my camaro and will use it in my type r.

4 sessions at road america not an issue, and there are some massive brake zones there.

https://www.amazon.com/ATE-706202-Original-Racing-Quality/dp/B003VXRPL0

It's more likely what you are smelling is the pads themselves and not the fluid. The brake fluid is in a sealed system so you shouldn't be able to smell anything unless there is a leak, in which case it's serious. If the fluid boils, you'll notice the pedal will get super soft and sink down.

However, another more common source of pedal softness is when the brake pad gets overheated and porous. The binder burns away and the pad is no longer solid and becomes spongy. When you press the brake, it squeezes the spongy pad and it feels soft. It's often hard to tell the difference between this and the fluid.

This ^

If you smell brake fluid whether hot or cold you have a problem...

Thanks for the recs and the heads up. You guys are probably right. It wasn't my car so I was unfamiliar with it. I hope to spend more time with one if I can secure one soon!

Gansan said:

It's more likely what you are smelling is the pads themselves and not the fluid. The brake fluid is in a sealed system so you shouldn't be able to smell anything unless there is a leak, in which case it's serious. If the fluid boils, you'll notice the pedal will get super soft and sink down.

However, another more common source of pedal softness is when the brake pad gets overheated and porous. The binder burns away and the pad is no longer solid and becomes spongy. When you press the brake, it squeezes the spongy pad and it feels soft. It's often hard to tell the difference between this and the fluid.

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I've never heard of this explanation for pedal sponginess. Do you have a source for that?

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

lawl said:

I've never heard of this explanation for pedal sponginess. Do you have a source for that?

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

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hi guys. I've been doing track events since 1993 continuously; too many to count lol! I'm a certified NASA and PCA and BMW CCA instructor, plus hold comp liscences with SCCA and NASA and VRG. what he said above about stock street pads overheating and burning out the binding agent and feeling squishy is VERY true and often is what happens (even though the brake fluid gets blamed). this is VERY common at DEs where the driver is a newbie and is running the stock pads. once they are overheated past a certain point it 'toasts' the pads and they feel terrible from there on out (and often if you take the pads off the car, they will be white and ashy and crumbly right in your hands). real race pads typically resist this (at least up to a much higher temp). so yes -- often its the pads and not the fluid. BTW the fluid should be changed/flushed several times a season, and I recommend bleeding about 10 pumps worth from each corner before every event and topping off the reservoir (this gets rid of the fluid that resides in the caliper and takes all the heat). just FYI!

Good to know. Thanks

I have done about 12 track days in last 2 years with CTR. The 10 years before that I tracked a Porsche 993. So I have plenty of track experience. In our club, fluid cannot be more than 6 months old. Original Dot 3 in CTR worked fine year 1, had zero issues, year 2, I used Motul for 5.1 because it's compatible with for 3 and dot 4 per manual recommendations. Again no issues. Tried different pads, pagid yellow and DTC60 for front. And hawk street race in reer. My favorite setup, to not unbalance car is OEMS in front + street race in reer simply because they last longer. Also, unless it's raining, I always turn of VSA otherwise, brakes heat up to much and get coated with pad material which makes pedal vibrate under braking afterwards until it's removed. Learned that year 1 with car. Had to run DTC 60 (agressaggr pad)an street/track to completely remove deposits. Then went back to OEM fronts. With VSA off on dry track, pad deposits issue never came back. BTW on a wet track, soft or sport mode all aids on and on street tires, the CTR is amazing, so stable it's unreal.

lawl said:

I've never heard of this explanation for pedal sponginess. Do you have a source for that?

Seems kind of unlikely to me.

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I see d15b7 already provided some Context, but just to explain, it’s from my personal experience running in both time trials and racing during the early years of Honda Challenge. For example, I once ran a set of Performance Friction 93 pads on my Integra. After the day the brakes worked well but were soft even after bleeding. When I took off the pads, you could see regions of them were like steel wool. By that I mean the metal component remained and the surrounding matrix was burned away. So I learned to always check the pads also if the brakes are soft. It can happen to any pad if you overheat them.

orthene holds the patent for 600 and 660 and other grades of brake fluid and is largest oem maker of it. most well known brake are just private labeling it...red line oil same as motul same as etc.

Just do this for 'your' Type-R -

Go buy pads for the track - swap them the day you go to the track - get odd looks squealing at all the lights - then enjoy limitless hooning with the track pads

- squeeeeeal your way home, then swap back to street and have a beer

lol

Good luck in your search