Type R Remote Start Install issue

4DaFanS said:

So update for remote start is out?

Click to expand...

The Type R does not require any special firmware update, as it's the exact same firmware used on 2016+ Civics (i.e for Blade AL it would be HA6)

What's different in the Type R is the CPSS [Clutch Pedal Stroke Sensor (VSA Modulator Control Unit)] #3 pin (YEL: CSS_SIG2) must be broken during crank with a relay, in addition to the CPPS [Clutch Pedal Position Sensor] #4 pin (YEL - located at BCM Connector C #26).

• The CPSS is impossible to get to without clutch pedal disassembly, therefore this wire must be found in the main harness that exits through the firewall on the driver's side. There are ~5 YEL wires in this bundle, with the correct one reading ~3.5v when off and ~1.3v with clutch depressed.

I've attached my custom created documentation for CompuStar on the Type R

EDIT

• Updated attachment, as Blade schematic was missing a tracer line for PTS (+)
• The CPSS relay must be triggered by a second negative start output
  • If using CompuStar, I've utilized POC #4 (CN5 #7), configured in Option Programming as #2 (second start out)

Please utilize my GitHub link for the most up to date version of the attached PDF, as the attached version is no longer current

jtrown said:

I’ve never heard of any type of auto start working on a manual transmission car. Good luck with your quest.

Click to expand...

Had a compustar auto start on my 2005 Celica MT. Been around for ages.

iLovePho said:

Update: I got my Compustar T11 with remote start and alarm installed last week. Aside from having to put into reservation mode and the engine turning off once you unlock (after the car is remote started), it works like a charm. Reservation mode is pretty straight forward with the T11. If I'm not mistaken, it seems that all cars with push to start and manual tranny has these quirks.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate more on this system (or point me to a thread about this if there is one)?

So it has remote start?

Can it tell you if someone is trying to break in the car if you're say 1 mile away? does it work over wifi?

Does it eliminate the need for the factory key fob? Thanks!

idragmazda said:

Can you elaborate more on this system (or point me to a thread about this if there is one)?

Click to expand...

CompuStar Alrm + Remote Start

idragmazda said:

Can it tell you if someone is trying to break in the car if you're say 1 mile away? does it work over wifi?

Click to expand...

Yes, the T11 & T12 have a 3 mile range.

If you want unlimited range, the Drone module would be the way to go, as it operates over 4G LTE. It's recommended to buy the subscription in 3yr increments since it's cheaper

• DroneMobile:
  • Basic plan: $130/3yr
  • Premium plan: $300/3yr
    • Offers GPS tracking and GeoFencing

idragmazda said:

Does it eliminate the need for the factory key fob?

Click to expand...

No, and no alarm or remote start will, as the keyfob has the immobilizer chip embedded in it.

idragmazda said:

Can you elaborate more on this system (or point me to a thread about this if there is one)?

So it has remote start?
Yes

Can it tell you if someone is trying to break in the car if you're say 1 mile away? does it work over wifi?
Depends on the area, if there's a lot of obstructions (like in a city with tall buildings), it's highly unlikely you'll get alerted within the max quoted range of 3 miles. On the other hand, if the area is open and relatively flat, you can definitely get decent range; I haven't tested more than half a mile because I haven't parked my car farther than that lol

And no it does not work over wifi. If you want a remote start / security that has literally unlimited range, go for the Drone Mobile. Only downside is that you have to pay a monthly fee since it works over cellular network via an app on your phone, but you don't need to carry an additional key fob. You get alerts and remote start your car over the cellular network, so there's a slight lag vs an actual keyfob, but it's not terrible. My installer had it on his X5 and demonstrated it to me.

Does it eliminate the need for the factory key fob? Thanks!
Nope, still need to carry the factory key fob

Click to expand...

See my comments above.

iLovePho said:

See my comments above:
"Only downside is that you have to pay a monthly fee"

Click to expand...

Factually inaccurate/misleading:

• Buying it in 3yr increments is massively cheaper
  • Basic: $130/3yr
  • Premium $300/3yr

Full Price List

• Basic
  • $5.99 /Month
  • $59.99 /1-Year
    
  • $99.99 /2-Years
    
  • $129.99 /3-Years

• Premium
  • $11.99 /Month
    
  • $119.99 /1-Year
    
  • $219.99 /2-Years
    
  • $299.99 /3-Years

JW0914 said:

Factually inaccurate/misleading:

• Buying it in 3yr increments is massively cheaper
  • Basic: $130/3yr
  • Premium $300/3yr

Click to expand...

I'm sure if he was really looking to get it, he would've gone to the website himself (I didn't) and saw various payment options, but my opinion that it's a downside still stand.

iLovePho said:

I'm sure if he was really looking to get it, he would've gone to the website himself (I didn't) and saw various payment options, but my opinion that it's a downside still stand.

Click to expand...

Thanks guys. This is helpful.

iLovePho said:

...my opinion that it's a downside still stand.

Click to expand...

$43.33/yr | $3.61/mo is a downside... come on now.

And the search begins. Too damn cold in PA. I want a solid remote start.

Vesutiiji said:

And the search begins. Too damn cold in PA. I want a solid remote start.

Click to expand...

I personally recommend CompuStar's Alarm & Remote Start. I use it with a CompuStar T11 remote and Drone Mobile.

• Pros:
  • CompuStar is the best in the business for car alarms and remote starts and has been for well over a decade.
  • Lifetime warranty on everything except the remotes, valid anywhere in North America (remotes carry 1 - 3yr warranties)
  • Many of the CompuStar 2-way remotes utilize Spread Spectrum, and Drone uses 4G LTE
  • Drone Comes in Basic ($130 for 3yrs) and Premium ($300 for 3yrs), with Premium offering real-time vehicle tracking and geo-fencing, accurate to ~2 meters
• Cons:
  • Requires a shop to install it if you want to take advantage of the lifetime warranty
  • User can install it on their own, provided they know how to solder
    • I've attached a custom guide below for the Alarm & Remote Start brain (7000AS/CM7000)
    • Continually Updated Guide [OneDrive Link]

Many users have gone with Fortin since they offer a T-Harness, limiting what you have to solder into. CompuStar [FirsTech] offers a T-Harness solution as well with their DC2/DC3 brains.

• Pros:
  • Ease of install, taking a lot of the burden off the end user if they're installing it
• Cons:
  • While Fortin brains will work with CompuStar remotes, the Drone only has a 50/50 shot of commands completing, and 2-way remotes have ~80% success rate for command completion.
  • Fortin brains do not offer the same level of features CompuStar's 7000AS or 7200S offers.
    • CompuStar brains have 30 POCs (Programmable Output Channels) and 12 PICs (Programmable Input Channels), which allow you to trigger anything that can be operated with voltage from CompuStar's remotes.
      • For example, a button could be programmed to roll the windows down to a set height or turn on accent lighting without having to turn on the vehicle, etc.

JW0914 said:

The Type R does not require any special firmware update, as it's the exact same firmware used on 2016+ Civics (i.e for Blade AL it would be HA6)

What's different in the Type R is the CPSS [Clutch Pedal Stroke Sensor (VSA Modulator Control Unit)] #3 pin (YEL: CSS_SIG2) must be broken during crank with a relay, in addition to the CPPS [Clutch Pedal Position Sensor] #4 pin (YEL - located at BCM Connector C #26).

• The CPSS is impossible to get to without clutch pedal disassembly, therefore this wire must be found in the main harness that exits through the firewall on the driver's side. There are ~5 YEL wires in this bundle, with the correct one reading ~3.5v when off and ~1.3v with clutch depressed.

I've attached my custom created documentation for CompuStar on the Type R

EDIT

• Updated attachment, as Blade schematic was missing a tracer line for PTS (+)
• The CPSS relay must be triggered by a second negative start output
  • If using CompuStar, I've utilized POC #4 (CN5 #7), configured in Option Programming as #2 (second start out)

Click to expand...

Using a clutch bypass are you able to install remote start with takeover then?

Andruboine said:

Using a clutch bypass are you able to install remote start with takeover then?

Click to expand...

No, no PTS vehicle I'm aware of supports takeover with remote start, as its too large a security and safety risk... You especially don't want takeover on a PTS manual transmission, as its asking for the vehicle to be stolen.

AFAIK, takeover is only supported on standard key ignitions, as the key is effectively the 2FA for the ignition.

JW0914 said:

No, no PTS vehicle I'm aware of supports takeover with remote start, as its too large a security and safety risk.

AFAIK, takeover is only supported on standard key ignitions, as the key is effectively the 2FA for the ignition.

Click to expand...

Fortin sites claims it supports takeover on their manual trans with a hon 7 Honda but I haven’t seen anyone do it yet on the type r.

my installer says it would work on a regular civic he’s still working on a solution for mine though.

JW0914 said:

No, no PTS vehicle I'm aware of supports takeover with remote start, as its too large a security and safety risk... You especially don't want takeover on a PTS manual transmission, as its asking for the vehicle to be stolen.

AFAIK, takeover is only supported on standard key ignitions, as the key is effectively the 2FA for the ignition.

Click to expand...

takeover or non takeover it still requires ready mode so the safety thing is just as dangerous PTS or not, that piece is irrelevant IMO.
The car requires the key to be in the car for takeover and the car isn’t unlocked when it’s running after it starts up. If you push the button in the car without the key inside it just turns off and you have to push the button in order to takeover in any car manual or not. All of these safety concerns are always brought up but they Operate just like any auto PTS

Fortin claims takeover on manual for their Honda7 t harness. I just haven’t seen it implemented as of yet. I’ve talked to installers that say they can do it but haven’t.

My installer is confident if it was a regular civic it would work but he’s still working on bypassing the clutch wires to test it out completely on my type r

Seems close. I have it without takeover and he can get it to work with takeover but it throws codes that don’t go away likely due to the clutch. Hoping if he can create a relay bypass that it will work. I’m reminded of its annoyance everyday so I’m always checking these forums to see if anyone’s cracked it.

Andruboine said:

Fortin sites claims it supports takeover on their manual trans with a hon 7 Honda but I haven’t seen anyone do it yet on the type r.

my installer says it would work on a regular civic he’s still working on a solution for mine though. takeover or non takeover it still requires ready mode so the safety thing is just as dangerous PTS or not, that piece is irrelevant IMO.

Click to expand...

Starting in gear wasn't the safety risk I was talking about... there's legitimate safety reasons as to why PTS vehicles almost always kill the engine upon opening a door and always do so upon opening the hood. It's one thing for a single user to bypass these safety issues, but another thing entirely for it to be done en masse.

The car requires the key to be in the car for takeover and the car isn’t unlocked when it’s running after it starts up. If you push the button in the car without the key inside it just turns off and you have to push the button in order to takeover in any car manual or not. All of these safety concerns are always brought up but they Operate just like any auto PTS

Fortin claims takeover on manual for their Honda7 t harness. I just haven’t seen it implemented as of yet. I’ve talked to installers that say they can do it but haven’t.

Click to expand...

It's not even remotely that simple... I'd be asking Fortin to fork over their data showing actual evidence the encryption keys are still being passed between the key fob and BCM when takeover occurs and aren't simply being emulated (which is how the vehicle initially remote starts). If they refuse, don't trust it - it's that simple, as there is a very real risk of having the vehicle stolen at that point... There's a reason it isn't possible to clone Civic's key fobs and a reason why it is possible to perform relay attacks on Teslas and Mercedes - they consciously chose to skimp on security.

• Provided you're aware of the risks and pros & cons, it's your car. Something to keep in mind though is if the vehicle is ever stolen, any mediocre insurance adjuster is going to question how a vehicle with a thus-far unhackable spread spectrum encrypted key exchange allowed for the vehicle to be stolen, and why it hasn't been seen before
  • i.e. what modifications were done to the vehicle and is the non-standard modification reason enough to deny the insurance claim - there's a 50 / 50 chance an adjuster would view such a modification as at-fault by the insured and refuse coverage.
  
  
• If the minor inconvenience of 5 -10s of the vehicle shutting down, waiting for the dash to turn completely off, and then starting it is worth the potential of a $37k+ loss, by all means. For me personally, that's too large a risk for what I view [to me] as an insignificant inconvenience... but we all view risks differently, with one being no more right than the other.

My installer is confident if it was a regular civic it would work but he’s still working on bypassing the clutch wires to test it out completely on my type r ...he can get it to work with takeover but it throws codes that don’t go away likely due to the clutch. Hoping if he can create a relay bypass that it will work.

Click to expand...

There are only two wires that need to be bypassed, which I provided in this post, however here's my GitHub link, which has the most current version (see page 4).

• Provide a [GitHub] copy to your installer and they'll be able to get you up and running without the DTCs thrown by not bypassing the VSA Modulator Control Unit.