Type R vs Si

Dragnet · Jan 4, 2019

@NoKz I agree with that launching part. I think I've launched my Type R twice and I felt like it was so hard in it. I prefer getting on it from a bit of a roll vs a dead stop.

NoKz · Jan 4, 2019

Dragnet said:
@NoKz I agree with that launching part. I think I've launched my Type R twice and I felt like it was so hard in it. I prefer getting on it from a bit of a roll vs a dead stop.

Exactly. The Integra was supposed to be a track car, but after taking it out once, I feel I was too worried to damage it. It's body and condition is too nice to track and It'd be a damn shame if something happened to it. I decided I would drop the LSV motor into a shell and send it with zero fear. As for the Integra, I just want a nice build to drive around, take to meets/shows and occasionally humble some V8 owners.

garoto · Jan 4, 2019

NoKz said:
Exactly. The Integra was supposed to be a track car, but after taking it out once, I feel I was too worried to damage it. It's body and condition is too nice to track and It'd be a damn shame if something happened to it. I decided I would drop the LSV motor into a shell and send it with zero fear. As for the Integra, I just want a nice build to drive around, take to meets/shows and occasionally humble some V8 owners.

Every mile put in the CTR that’s not a track mile is a bit of a shame. That’s how I feel. The car performs so well, it’s mind blowing. It’s a car with a purpose, way beyond a show car for meets and coffee.

averagetrackdriver · Jan 4, 2019

NoKz said:
I'm currently building a K24A2 block (TSX) that had 65K on it. New rods, pistons, bearings, etc. I'll be mating it with a K20A2 (Si) head and boosting it.

Man, even in NA form, that would be an awesome engine. Honestly, I wish the current Si had a version of this engine. Your LSV-powered car is going to be a fantastic track weapon.

aldo · Jan 6, 2019

With the markup on the CTR I bet in a few years the depreciatin on the Si will be the same as the depreciation on the CTR.

Dragnet · Jan 6, 2019

I was trying to google this LSV engine and I think I may have been looking up the wrong thing. What engine is this?

stevescivic · Jan 6, 2019

LSV = LS-VTEC where you takenabN18A or B18B bottom end and put a DOHC VTEC head from a B16A or B18C5 and make a non VTEC integral engine into a striker VTEC enabled monster.

It’s been ages since I played with a B18A/B but if I recall correctly it had the longest stroke of the B-series motors effectively making it almost a 1.9 liter motor with the VTEC head.

Definitely a torquey build but theoretically not the most ideal high revving engine due to the imperfect rod to stroke ratio.

various cheeses · Jan 7, 2019

Oh man the frankenLS, that takes me back. Bottom end from an Integra LS (B18B) and either the VTEC B16 Civic Si/B18C1 Integra GSR head, and ended up being stronger than either engine alone from the longer stroke. Didn't people also try this with the B20 CRV motors for even higher displacement? I remember B20 swaps being a thing, but I don't remember the heads being swapped.

stevescivic · Jan 7, 2019

various cheeses said:
Oh man the frankenLS, that takes me back. Bottom end from an Integra LS (B18B) and either the VTEC B16 Civic Si/B18C1 Integra GSR head, and ended up being stronger than either engine alone from the longer stroke. Didn't people also try this with the B20 CRV motors for even higher displacement? I remember B20 swaps being a thing, but I don't remember the heads being swapped.

Yep you could do the CR-VTEC as well but I believe they weren’t as abundant relative to the B18A/B’s at the time because of how long they were available. B18s have been around at least since 1990 in North America where as the B20 came in 1997 so that *may* explain why you didn’t hear about them as often. I could be totally off on my understanding of the situation but there were way more B18 builds than there ever were B20s. I sure do miss my B motors... these K and L engines are so complicated by comparison.

Noize · Feb 2, 2019

I’m super late to this party, but finally got to drive an Si today after two months of Type R ownership. Here’s my observations.

Si positives:
-It’s 200 pounds lighter, and you can feel it. While not as hardcore or nearly as fast, it’s very endearing and has playful handling. Love the LSD and steering. The tenth gen is a delight in both Si and Type R iterations.

-While I prefer the bolstering and seat bottoms in the R, the seat backs are so much better in the Si. They don’t have that weird contouring the R has, which requires awkward seat positioning or lower back fatigue as punishment.

-Side camera at right turns is cool. Don’t know if this is a 2019 thing or an Si thing, but you’ll never have a friend driving your car curb a wheel with this.

-Massive improvement in fuel economy.

Si negatives:
-Let me get the big one out of the way first: THAT CLUTCH SUCKS! It is completely devoid of feel, is so soft you can blow it down to the floor, and even though this car had 30 miles on it, I think it might have been slipping. If you mat the throttle in 5th or 6th on the highway, the digital needle jumps 300rpm or so before calming and accelerating normally. It might just be the tach, but my R does not exhibit this behavior at all. Just awful.

-That fuel miser 1.5 sounds like a sewing machine. There’s nothing sporty about it vocally at all. It’s not very rewarding to rev, either, but it has over a 100hp handicap. The tunability of this engine is well documented. Honda would hit a home run with about 230hp and a clutch that doesn’t belong in a 60hp kei car.

-The shifter gate is so weird for 5th and 6th. It doesn’t even feel made by the same company. It took me a couple tries to easily hit 5th, because 5/6 are so much closer to 3/4 than the Type R or any other car I’ve driven.

I feel really mixed about it. Some things I liked a lot. I think with a clutch, a tune, and better rubber, it would be a fantastic little car.

RP2000R · Feb 2, 2019

I have both and you nailed the review.
The SI Clutch is weak, Flat top end, tires garbage, and brakes ok at best but for 22K or so a good daily car.

WOPSiWOT · Feb 3, 2019

Noize said:
I’m super late to this party, but finally got to drive an Si today after two months of Type R ownership. Here’s my observations.

Si positives:
-It’s 200 pounds lighter, and you can feel it. While not as hardcore or nearly as fast, it’s very endearing and has playful handling. Love the LSD and steering. The tenth gen is a delight in both Si and Type R iterations.

-While I prefer the bolstering and seat bottoms in the R, the seat backs are so much better in the Si. They don’t have that weird contouring the R has, which requires awkward seat positioning or lower back fatigue as punishment.

-Side camera at right turns is cool. Don’t know if this is a 2019 thing or an Si thing, but you’ll never have a friend driving your car curb a wheel with this.

-Massive improvement in fuel economy.

Si negatives:
-Let me get the big one out of the way first: THAT CLUTCH SUCKS! It is completely devoid of feel, is so soft you can blow it down to the floor, and even though this car had 30 miles on it, I think it might have been slipping. If you mat the throttle in 5th or 6th on the highway, the digital needle jumps 300rpm or so before calming and accelerating normally. It might just be the tach, but my R does not exhibit this behavior at all. Just awful.

-That fuel miser 1.5 sounds like a sewing machine. There’s nothing sporty about it vocally at all. It’s not very rewarding to rev, either, but it has over a 100hp handicap. The tunability of this engine is well documented. Honda would hit a home run with about 230hp and a clutch that doesn’t belong in a 60hp kei car.

-The shifter gate is so weird for 5th and 6th. It doesn’t even feel made by the same company. It took me a couple tries to easily hit 5th, because 5/6 are so much closer to 3/4 than the Type R or any other car I’ve driven.

I feel really mixed about it. Some things I liked a lot. I think with a clutch, a tune, and better rubber, it would be a fantastic little car.

I think the worst decision Honda made was to roll over the clutch from the EX-T and not use a SMF.

davemarco · Feb 6, 2019

My Type R is being built next week. As I prep for trading in the SI, I am reminded of just how much worse the car was stock. The power is meh and the rev hang is just awful. Honestly, KTuner made this car good.

My question for those that have upgraded from an SI to an R: how bad is the rev hang on the R stock? During my single test drive it seemed nonexistent, and I know that the R has a much lighter SMF. I am wondering if I will start to notice some electronic rev hang after a while though. Can anyone comment?

Dragnet · Feb 6, 2019

davemarco said:
My Type R is being built next week. As I prep for trading in the SI, I am reminded of just how much worse the car was stock. The power is meh and the rev hang is just awful. Honestly, KTuner made this car good.

My question for those that have upgraded from an SI to an R: how bad is the rev hang on the R stock? During my single test drive it seemed nonexistent, and I know that the R has a much lighter SMF. I am wondering if I will start to notice some electronic rev hang after a while though. Can anyone comment?

I cannot say from experience cause I've only ever had the Type R but I've seen several people comment that the rev hang is a lot worse in the Si.

WOPSiWOT · Feb 6, 2019

davemarco said:
My Type R is being built next week. As I prep for trading in the SI, I am reminded of just how much worse the car was stock. The power is meh and the rev hang is just awful. Honestly, KTuner made this car good.

My question for those that have upgraded from an SI to an R: how bad is the rev hang on the R stock? During my single test drive it seemed nonexistent, and I know that the R has a much lighter SMF. I am wondering if I will start to notice some electronic rev hang after a while though. Can anyone comment?

I have also only test driven the CTR but noticed no rev hang. I noticed rev hang on the Si even during the test. Now when I “enable” rev hang with KTuner I REALLY notice it.

Type R vs Si

Dragnet

Senior Member

NoKz

Speed Limit Tester

garoto

Senior Member

averagetrackdriver

Senior Member

aldo

Dragnet

Senior Member

stevescivic

Senior Member

various cheeses

Senior Member

stevescivic

Senior Member

Noize

Senior Member

RP2000R

Senior Member

WOPSiWOT

Senior Member

davemarco

Senior Member

Dragnet

Senior Member

WOPSiWOT

Senior Member

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