Valve cleaning options

Snoopyslr said:

You'd have to be at like 150k+ for carbon build up to be so bad that it's impeding air flow enough to cause issues. Did you actually find a video showing the valves being sprayed?


It's a direct port injected bi-charged rotary piston flat head engine.


Oh oops, I forgot to use my [/sarcasm ] code that I sincerely hope you forgot too...

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Not me "Sir" ... thanks for your precise answer, so it is a combination of both DI & PI

Then as someone who knows little to nothing about the technicalities of DI & PI, given that DI is added to increase Fuel efficiency (MPG) and reduce Pollution, but has the penalty of OD at low engine temperatures, in theory, would it be possible to limit the DI until the engine warmed up, and reduce the OD, at the expense of a short time with lower MPG and performance , and a short time of higher pollution , or is that compromise either technically or politically unacceptable ?

Just passed 50,000 and I took it in for an oil change. I let the dealer do the recommended injector cleaning.

I only use 93 octane and I thought the car was still running smooth and good. But after the cleaning, it definitely felt" stronger".

repeet said:

Just passed 50,000 and I took it in for an oil change. I let the dealer do the recommended injector cleaning.

I only use 93 octane and I thought the car was still running smooth and good. But after the cleaning, it definitely felt" stronger".

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Interesting .. do you know what the Honda "recommended Injector cleaning" is.
You are talking Injector Cleaning, not valve cleaning ?

How much did the dealer charge for the Injector cleaning.? (please)
I suspect that if it was significant, there would be a Placebo effect coming into play, to make you feel it was stronger

It cost about $270.00. The bill says that they cleaned the injectors, the valves, and the "intake".

The majority of the cost was labor. I probably should have asked them what all they did, but I was on the way to work, and I was just happy it ran good.

repeet said:

It cost about $270.00. The bill says that they cleaned the injectors, the valves, and the "intake".

The majority of the cost was labor. I probably should have asked them what all they did, but I was on the way to work, and I was just happy it ran good.

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My guess at that low price, it was just a quick spray with some aerosol intake cleaner, and a bottle of Injector cleaning fluid added to the fuel tank. .. but I hope I am wrong.
Maybe the first spark plug change as well ?

Maybe someone with a Subscription access to the Honda Service Website, can tell us exactly what that 50,000 mile cleaning service procedure really consist of.

Its an observation watching vidoes of how the 1.5T works and the intake valves appear to be sprayed with some fuel when opening, do a you tube search Honda have produced a few videos showing the operation of the unit. Let us not forget that Honda are the worlds largest engine manufacturer and they have probably observed and learnt a great deal from other manufacturers mistakes so in my opinion I think the "issue" could be overblown at this point, but thats not to say it wont happen in the future just that the evidence at the moment does not support significant carbon build up. We will have to wait until units have higher mileage on them before we can make an informed judgement.

SCOPESYS said:

My guess at that low price, it was just a quick spray with some aerosol intake cleaner, and a bottle of Injector cleaning fluid added to the fuel tank. .. but I hope I am wrong.
Maybe the first spark plug change as well ?

Maybe someone with a Subscription access to the Honda Service Website, can tell us exactly what that 50,000 mile cleaning service procedure really consist of.

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You are likely correct. There’s no such thing as 50k injector cleaning. To clean them properly they need to be removed and put on a stand. Valves - intake to come off. Waste or 270$. We’ve got a winner

parshisa said:

You are likely correct. There’s no such thing as 50k injector cleaning. To clean them properly they need to be removed and put on a stand. Valves - intake to come off. Waste or 270$. We’ve got a winner

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Sorry to hear that

While my car is still under the manufactures warranty, I don't feel like doing the "recommended" maintenance is a waste of money. Add to that that the dealer added his unlimited drivetrain warranty, I feel like I can afford their silly games.

repeet said:

While my car is still under the manufactures warranty, I don't feel like doing the "recommended" maintenance is a waste of money. Add to that that the dealer added his unlimited drivetrain warranty, I feel like I can afford their silly games.

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What ever makes you feel good and help you sleep well at night. At your expense of course.

SCOPESYS said:

Not me "Sir" ... thanks for your precise answer, so it is a combination of both DI & PI

Then as someone who knows little to nothing about the technicalities of DI & PI, given that DI is added to increase Fuel efficiency (MPG) and reduce Pollution, but has the penalty of OD at low engine temperatures, in theory, would it be possible to limit the DI until the engine warmed up, and reduce the OD, at the expense of a short time with lower MPG and performance , and a short time of higher pollution , or is that compromise either technically or politically unacceptable ?

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This engine is direct injection, not a combination. There are some manufacturers that do both, Toyota is one I believe. They have 2 fuel injectors per cylinder. The civics have one injector that sprays into the cylinder (DI) it is just angled to partly spray on the intake valves when they are opened. They also designed the PCV system to act kinda like a catch can and help remove the problematic oil vapor and help that way. In fact one vendor, MAP i believe, was looking to design a catch can for the 10th gen and found that in their opinion the stock pcv system does a good enough job that they scrapped that project and moved on to developing something else. So Honda has addressed valve buildup in their design, how well it works we don't yet know since there aren't enough 10th gens with enough miles yet to judge.

cygnus21 said:

This engine is direct injection, not a combination. There are some manufacturers that do both, Toyota is one I believe. They have 2 fuel injectors per cylinder. The civics have one injector that sprays into the cylinder (DI) it is just angled to partly spray on the intake valves when they are opened. They also designed the PCV system to act kinda like a catch can and help remove the problematic oil vapor and help that way. In fact one vendor, MAP i believe, was looking to design a catch can for the 10th gen and found that in their opinion the stock pcv system does a good enough job that they scrapped that project and moved on to developing something else. So Honda has addressed valve buildup in their design, how well it works we don't yet know since there aren't enough 10th gens with enough miles yet to judge.

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Thanks for the detailed, knowledgeable explanation.

So, adding a Catch Can is not going to do a lot more than the Honda design is already achieving. That explains why one Forum member reported having fitted a Catch Can, they were not collecting much in it !!

SCOPESYS said:

Thanks for the detailed, knowledgeable explanation.

So, adding a Catch Can is not going to do a lot more than the Honda design is already achieving. That explains why one Forum member reported having fitted a Catch Can, they were not collecting much in it !!

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I think the Jury is still out on the catch can. MAP feels that one isn't needed but other trusted vendors currently sell or are designing them for this platform so I don't think anyone really knows for sure on that issue.

Lifesabeach said:

Its an observation watching vidoes of how the 1.5T works and the intake valves appear to be sprayed with some fuel when opening, do a you tube search Honda have produced a few videos showing the operation of the unit. Let us not forget that Honda are the worlds largest engine manufacturer and they have probably observed and learnt a great deal from other manufacturers mistakes so in my opinion I think the "issue" could be overblown at this point, but thats not to say it wont happen in the future just that the evidence at the moment does not support significant carbon build up. We will have to wait until units have higher mileage on them before we can make an informed judgement.

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can you provide the video link that show this! I'm really intrigued about this as carbon build up has been a big concern for my SI. I am, at the moment, running a mishi catch-can.

Just do a you tube search type in hond 1.5 turbo engine. Its just an observation I have made, have a look and draw your own conclusions. Im personally not too concerned and the fact that a certain manufacturer (cant remember who) has stopped developing their catch can after they tested the 1.5 and said they could not better the Honda system as fitted.