Why change from 20 inch wheel may be bad for the R.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...5683452/smaller-lighter-wheels-hurt-handling/

Interesting read. I'm sure MANY will disagree.

This has been argued many times on here already.

Plain and simple people are getting better lap times from smaller and wider 18-19s with better tire options available.

.grimace said:

This has been argued many times on here already.

Plain and simple people are getting better lap times from smaller and wider 18-19s with better tire options available.

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Yeah I know, just thought was interesting road and track did a write up on it. Gezzzz

Harlaquin said:

Yeah I know, just thought was interesting road and track did a write up on it. Gezzzz

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Oh sorry I wasn't trying to come off as rude towards you I meant them. Some arm chair dude talking about geometry is great and all but when you've track yours multiple times on 18" wheels and even in 2nd gear (where it should be worse) I couldn't tell a noticeable difference it just makes me wonder how bored that writer is

My winter tire is the article’s “perfect match” 245/35Z(performance)R-19 on OZ MSW Type 71 rims. Just a coincidence since I bought them 1.5 yrs ago!

20 inch wheels and $300 tires + pothole are bad for my wallet .


I'm happy with my used Apex wheels and 595RSRR

Seems like the writer's only concern is torque steer. And because he watched EE's video about torque steer, he believes that scrub radius is the primary cause of torque steer. What he failed to catch in Jason's explanation, is that scrub radius is only part of the equation. In reality, if torque/traction was equal to both wheels, scrub radius wouldn't matter. So, yes, minimizing scrub radius helps with torque steer, but it is not the cause of torque steer.

I am confident that Honda is taking advantage of the electronic power steering to fully eliminate torque steer feel. This would also explain the "torque steer" experienced in a turn. If the power steering is "holding" the wheel angle, it will fight you when you go to turn the wheels.

Harlaquin said:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cu...5683452/smaller-lighter-wheels-hurt-handling/

Interesting read. I'm sure MANY will disagree.

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Actually, first thing I've noticed after going to 18" wheels (regardless of tire size, 255/35, 255/40 or 265/35) the turn in is not as "sharp" as the factory 20's.

The article is just a bunch of, "No shit."

We'd love an 18" wheel that doesn't alter the scrub radius. It doesn't exist.

I'd love to run 20" wheels all the time but it's not super practical for a daily driver.

UFO CTR said:

Actually, first thing I've noticed after going to 18" wheels (regardless of tire size, 255/35, 255/40 or 265/35) the turn in is not as "sharp" as the factory 20's.

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Hard to replicate the stiff sidewall a 30 series gives vs a 35 or 40.

1. Handling is subjective.
Does it mean ultimate corner grip/speed or does it mean feel or does it mean balance and predictability? I think it's a combination of all three with different people placing different importance on those aspects. Torque steer is a feel thing.

2. Torque steer itself is not really subjective.
There is an actual force that changes steering direction. If a certain wheel offset produces zero torque steer, then a 1 mm difference from that offset will produce some torque steer. That's just physics. (If ET60 has no torque steer, ET59 will have torque steer, and ET45 will have more torque steer). It's subjective how much people notice the torque steer and most will not notice or care about a little torque steer. Others, however, are in tune with every little vibration in their cars and relish enjoying the subtle handling characteristics. For them, a small amount of torque steer will be very noticeable (though still not for ET59 ). How noticeable also depends on whether the road is slick.

3. 18 inch wheels will not make you slower.
In fact, less weight will likely make you faster around a track, especially if the wheel is wider.

4. I think my 18 inch wheels are an improvement.
The car is a tad quicker (18 pound wheels!) and has more grip from the width (18x9). I took care to get the highest offset 18s I could find (ET53), but I still notice a hint of torque steer when I really get on it. Although many don't care AND it doesn't affect track performance, I don't think I could stand ET45 or less because it would negatively impact the steering feel too much for me. At ET53, the difference is subtle enough that I'm happy. For a daily driver on less than ideal roads I appreciate the added durability of 18s as well.

I think the article has a lot of merit and is not full of s**t, and saying lap times are better with a certain less-than-optimal wheel and tire combo doesn't mean the article is wrong. It just means if you are going for lap time, then you are deciding on a different compromise in order to get there. Totally legitimate way to go.

If you actually wanted to compare correctly, you would first want to isolate each variable and change only that, then you have a better baseline to figure out the result of changing multiple variables. So if we were to look at the two main variables:

Better tire selection--If we could get more tires in 20" size, then we could have a fair comparison. Sadly, the Pilot Sport Cup 2 seems to be the only track tire in 20" and is too expensive for many drivers. If we had the same tires in 20" as 18", then comparisons would be a lot easier because then you are comparing brands and not size.

Wider wheels, which in turn allow wider tires--The extra contact patch makes the tires more fade-resistant on track. If we could get wider wheels in 20" size and also find a theoretical 265/25-20 tire, then we could see the results of having the exact same width tire in 20" vs 18". In past comparison tests of identical brand tires but larger wheel/shorter sidewall I have read, the shorter sidewall tended to win in lap times. (Tire Rack has done these tests in the past.)

I also disagree with the EPS filtering out torque steer that much. The reason is it would not make sense to go through all that trouble to engineer a completely different steering knuckle/damper/control arm setup to do every possible thing to match up the angles and axes AND THEN just make all that work useless by filtering out the torque steer. The whole point of all that work is to minimize any need for the EPS to need to filter out the forces, and by preserving those forces you are preserving the feedback that you need to drive at the limit.

I think @yargk 's comment and the article convince me to stick to OEM or getting the FK2 wheels. If only ET60 isn't so rare and considered "for trucks"

UFO CTR said:

Actually, first thing I've noticed after going to 18" wheels (regardless of tire size, 255/35, 255/40 or 265/35) the turn in is not as "sharp" as the factory 20's.

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that depends on tire compound and tire carcass. an 18" tire with stiffer carcass (like race tires are) will give you amazing turn in even better than stock. stock gives you a perception of quicker turn in simply because of rubber band thin sidewalls...that's all.

.grimace said:

Hard to replicate the stiff sidewall a 30 series gives vs a 35 or 40.

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yes you can...it's called pure track tires. it's about the carcass...what i replied to ufo.