How can Hyundai get it so right, and Honda so wrong?

Knowing the Veloster platform, I suspect it will be well received once it starts making the rounds with the media reviews. Hyundai will probably keep the traditional MacPherson design up front to keep costs down. That means a lot of torque steer which is both fun and distracting to everyday driving.

It's a Hyundai though... long term maintenance could be a chore (100K+).

SBD47 said:

I realize that. That is why I shared my experience of a rear motor mount changing the interior sound of the car.

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Vibration too or just good noise? Would you take a risk for the stiffer mount?

jasonjm said:

Vibration too or just good noise? Would you take a risk for the stiffer mount?

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I have some vibration at certain RPMs, but no new rattles or anything. I am very happy with the upgrade. The car doesn’t wheel hop anymore and it has a deeper, louder growl to it now. In my opinion, this is how the “R” should have come from the factory.

SBD47 said:

I realize that. That is why I shared my experience of a rear motor mount changing the interior sound of the car.

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I’m considering a mount too, nothing crazy TBH.

This guy is a real fan boy of the Type R, but we all know that no car is perfect, and he pretty well sums up the shortcomings of the 2017-18 Type R that have been addressed in the 2019's.
Skip to minute 9:30.

What did Honda get wrong exactly? Just because they didn't install fart cannons like Hyundai doesn't make it a failure.
Change the exhaust if you're not happy with it.

Design said:

Knowing the Veloster platform, I suspect it will be well received once it starts making the rounds with the media reviews. Hyundai will probably keep the traditional MacPherson design up front to keep costs down. That means a lot of torque steer which is both fun and distracting to everyday driving.

It's a Hyundai though... long term maintenance could be a chore (100K+).

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It is MacPherson in the front and multi-link in the rear, but comes with an LSD as part of the performance package. Torque steer should be minimal, similar to the SI.

It's a Hyundai though... long term maintenance could be a chore (100K+).

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Let me preface what I'm about to say by letting you know I've owned twice as many Honda/Acura products as Hyundai/Kia ones (4 vs. 2). And let me also let you know I ran a Hyundai based forum with 20,000+ members for 15 years. I mention that because I like both products. I think I'm fair and objective or at least I try to be.

Look folks, Hyundai of today is not the crap factory of the 80's. They make good cars with good reliability and a big warranty to back it up. The one area that was lacking was vehicle dynamics. They are working to change that. Certainly Honda and VW and such have had many more years to get to where they are.

This N line is a great start. The R is a better car, no doubt. But, this Veloster N is a very good vehicle in it's own right. It sort of niches in between and Si and R very well. I know this is a Honda owners site and I understand you guys are passionate about Honda. I love my Honda too.

For those of you willing to read a very detailed review of the N by Autoweek, check the link out below:

https://autoweek.com/article/car-reviews/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-drive-review-whole-heart

The N is not "inbetween" the Si and R, unless you're only talking about price. The STi and Golf R are already in that spot. The N is firmly in Si territory - the N costs a lot more for slightly better performance. The Si and N w/ perf pack have the same skidpad numbers and acceleration is different by like .1 seconds to 60. Without the performance pack, the N still costs more than a Si but doesn't have a LSD and it has skinnier tires. I'm guessing it's performance will fall below a Si w/ summer tires. And I don't see any numbers out there for that version of the N. I'm guessing in testing, the Si will show itself to be the true bargain.

If someone offered me a Si or N without Performance Package, I'll take the Si every time.

davemarco said:

It is MacPherson in the front and multi-link in the rear, but comes with an LSD as part of the performance package. Torque steer should be minimal, similar to the SI.

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Possibly. But I'm skeptical based on reviews of the N overseas.

My MS3 has a mechanical LSD with similar output, and pulls to the side in the lower gears. IMHO, it's very difficult to engineer fwd without torque steer, once you surpass 250 wtq.

Driveitlikeuboughtit said:

The Si and N w/ perf pack have the same skidpad numbers and acceleration is different by like .1 seconds to 60.

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Where's your data/proof to back this up?

averagetrackdriver said:

Where's your data/proof to back this up?

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.97 G for the Si and N
0-60 is 5.9 seconds per motortrend for N w/ performance pack. No info on non-performance pack, but skinnier tires, no LSD and less HP mean slower.
0-60 is 6.3 seconds per C&D for Si w/ summer tires and only 205 HP.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hyundai/veloster/2019/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-first-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-civic-si-coupe-test-review

Driveitlikeuboughtit said:

.97 G for the Si and N
0-60 is 5.9 seconds per motortrend for N w/ performance pack. No info on non-performance pack, but skinnier tires, no LSD and less HP mean slower.
0-60 is 6.3 seconds per C&D for Si w/ summer tires and only 205 HP.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/hyundai/veloster/2019/2019-hyundai-veloster-n-first-test-review/
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-honda-civic-si-coupe-test-review

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Thanks for the references. Yeah, I would agree that based on the stats in the C&D and Motortrend articles the N doesn't really buy that much more of a performance edge over the Si. What these reviews of the Si (and for the CTR) don't mention is how much of an issue heat soak is for both cars when on the track. Did they not encounter this issue when they were doing their instrument testing? I've track driven both the Si and CTR, and I suppose that I'll be accused of bias when I say that the CTR is the better track car b/c I track mine. However, heat soak is a very real problem, and I'm still trying to find the right cooling solution for my CTR. Friends who track their Si's have tried a lot of things (PRL FMIC, Koyo radiator, grill from ebay to improve airflow just to name three of them), but they just buy you a few more hot laps. The heat soak remains.

What I find interesting about the N reviews is that when they were test driving it at Thunderhill a number of the reviewers commented that the N still performed very well even though they were hammered hard all day long.

I still maintain that the CTR is the better car. The comparison of the N with CTR is just silly, but I'll disagree that it's a direct competitor with the Si. For me, it's somewhere between the Si and the CTR. The N shouldn't be dismissed out right just b/c it's a Hyundai. No, I'm not a Hyundai fanboy. I just want it to be fairly evaluated. I'm hoping that I might get a chance to drive on the track one of these days and find out for myself if it's any good or not.

Design said:

Possibly. But I'm skeptical based on reviews of the N overseas.

My MS3 has a mechanical LSD with similar output, and pulls to the side in the lower gears. IMHO, it's very difficult to engineer fwd without torque steer, once you surpass 250 wtq.

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Agreed. LSD isn't an end-all cure for torque steer. The '04 TL 6MT I had also had LSD, didnt do much to solve torque steer. And it had a double wishbone suspension up front.