TSP Stage 1 Tune for the 2017+ Civic Si (Cobra Race Support Included!)

gva2984 said:

What’s the difference between the k tuner base maps and the standard custome tune?

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This is not a direct answer, but it will get you close. Below is a list from the Two Step Performance website showing their Stage 1 & 2 tunes on a stock Si. The Flex Fuel tunes do need a flex fuel kit installed. Of course the non Factory tunes are using Ktuner. Their Stage kits have power levels close to what a good custom tune would be.

182whp / 206tq - Factory Calibration
208whp / 258tq - Ktuner Starter 23psi
237whp / 281tq - TSP Stage 1 Tune
245whp / 278tq - Ktuner Starter 23psi w/ Flex Fuel
270whp / 327tq - TSP Stage 2 Tune w/ Flex Fuel

VooDuuChild said:

I posted a thread, but got no answer, so I thought I'd drop the question here as this is the Stage 1 thread. I would like to run the PRL Cobra CAI Race and Invidia Exhaust. I can't wait to try the Stage 1 tune using the Ktuner which along with the intake, I will be buying through TSP. However, I was wondering if there was also what might be considered an "economy" tune for commuting to try and still maintain great fuel mileage using the mods listed above? It would be nice to be able to run an economy mode and then also a Stage 1 to turn to when playing. Thanks.

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Do you want to go more economy than stock tune? If you have read up on the TSP tune then you should know that there are 3 different maps. MAP 1 will (I guess) be your more "economy" tune. MAP 3 for fun.
I used to switch back and forth between the MAPs but now I just keep it on 3. You never know when you will need to punch it. Just drive decent and you can still get Gas millage in the 30s. Maybe even 40 mpg if you really try. (I dont know if that mpg is possible) I drive mine hard and I get a solid 29 mpg. Economical enough for me.

joshhjackson2112 said:

Do you want to go more economy than stock tune? If you have read up on the TSP tune then you should know that there are 3 different maps. MAP 1 will (I guess) be your more "economy" tune. MAP 3 for fun.
I used to switch back and forth between the MAPs but now I just keep it on 3. You never know when you will need to punch it. Just drive decent and you can still get Gas millage in the 30s. Maybe even 40 mpg if you really try. (I dont know if that mpg is possible) I drive mine hard and I get a solid 29 mpg. Economical enough for me.

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Are there 3 maps when using the Cobra CAI Race version? I know there are 3 maps for the stage 1, but was unclear if it would be setup the same for the race maf tune

After reading the whole thread I'm still not clear. Can a stock Si clutch take the tune? Is it recommended to stay in the lower maps and not hit map 3 on the stock clutch? Also with ktuner, can I switch easily between this tune and factory? I don't want to be running this tune on a snowy day of course! Thanks!

Boni said:

After reading the whole thread I'm still not clear. Can a stock Si clutch take the tune? Is it recommended to stay in the lower maps and not hit map 3 on the stock clutch? Also with ktuner, can I switch easily between this tune and factory? I don't want to be running this tune on a snowy day of course! Thanks!

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I run the tune no matter what is happening that day. If I dont want to drive with all the power I just lay off the right pedal..... or switch to a lower map (which I never do). I dont see anything wrong with driving like granny with map 3. I wouldn't take the time to flash back to factory just cause of weather, even if I had the time to do it. From my understanding, flashing back to factory is just as difficult as flashing the TSP Tune.
The TSP Stage 1 was made with the stock clutch in mind. Personally I think the tune pushes the clutch a little farther than it can handle over time. My stock clutch is still holding up to this day but I think it is on the downhill. Thing is, I have always planed on upgrading the clutch so it is not hurting my feelings my clutch will start to slip soon. I think with anybody who gets the tune, the clutch will slip eventually. Maybe if someone NEVER gets on it then the clutch will stay good, but then what the hell is the point of tuning your car if you dont mash the gas. For the record, I shift properly and never lug the engine. (flooring it in low RPMS/high gears)

Just wondering if there is a dyno pull of map 2 (21psi)? I picked up a KTuner from TSP on Cyber Monday but I want stay conservative to preserve the stock clutch.

D-Rob tuned these for the stock clutch specifically, even map3
https://www.civicx.com/threads/tsp-...ace-support-included.26591/page-3#post-448554

Yeah, even on map 3, the low end is way more dampened than the 21 psi basemap with everything maxed out.

davemarco said:

Yeah, even on map 3, the low end is way more dampened than the 21 psi basemap with everything maxed out.

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That doesn't seem to be the case based on the dyno graph posted, unless you're saying that some of the settings can improve low end torque significantly over the base settings?

iLude said:

That doesn't seem to be the case based on the dyno graph posted, unless you're saying that some of the settings can improve low end torque significantly over the base settings?

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There's no way to know what the quick adjustments are on the maps being compared (other than Turbo Responsiveness, which is explicitly stated). Boost dampening is enabled by default on the TSP Stage 1 as a way to make things much safer on the rods (you can't see this option, but I was able to confirm this via e-mail). It also feels like early spool may not be enabled on the TSP Stage 1 (possibly for the same safety reasons), though I have no evidence to confirm on that one. If this is the case, then it makes sense that the basemaps being compared in the dyno chart to the TSP Stage 1 would have their quick adjustments set to similar settings for an apples to apples comparison. After all, the true magic in the TSP stage 1 is in the timing and fueling changes, not in the quick settings.

I would invite you to flash a 21 psi basemap with fully maxed quick adjustments and early spool on, and then compare it to the TSP Stage 1. I found that it was as I expected - the TSP Stage 1 is far more linear and has a fair bit more mid to high end power. The maxed out basemap had more easy low end power that came on quickly, particularly at partial throttle (maybe a higher throttle sensitivity setting?), but started to run out of juice in the mid range.

davemarco said:

There's no way to know what the quick adjustments are on the maps being compared (other than Turbo Responsiveness, which is explicitly stated). Boost dampening is enabled by default on the TSP Stage 1 as a way to make things much safer on the rods (you can't see this option, but I was able to confirm this via e-mail). It also feels like early spool may not be enabled on the TSP Stage 1 (possibly for the same safety reasons), though I have no evidence to confirm on that one. If this is the case, then it makes sense that the basemaps being compared in the dyno chart to the TSP Stage 1 would have their quick adjustments set to similar settings for an apples to apples comparison. After all, the true magic in the TSP stage 1 is in the timing and fueling changes, not in the quick settings.

I would invite you to flash a 21 psi basemap with fully maxed quick adjustments and early spool on, and then compare it to the TSP Stage 1. I found that it was as I expected - the TSP Stage 1 is far more linear and has a fair bit more mid to high end power. The maxed out basemap had easy low end power that came on quickly, particularly at partial throttle (may a higher sensitivity throttle setting?), but started to run out of juice in the mid range.

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With TSP stage 1; It feels as if you're hitting vtec crossover right at 4000 rpm. Guessing this is where the bulk of valve timing and timing advance improvements take place.

When I was Vit tunned the entire curve felt smooth, with TSP seems they leave area under 4000rpm really conservative

d1zguy said:

With TSP stage 1; It feels as if you're hitting vtec crossover right at 4000 rpm. Guessing this is where the bulk of valve timing and timing advance improvements take place.

When I was Vit tunned the entire curve felt smooth, with TSP seems they leave area under 4000rpm really conservative

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I would agree with this. 4K and above really pulls hard - I wonder if a custom 93 octane tune could safely combine the easy low end power of a maxed basemap with the mid-high end power of the TSP Stage 1? Or maybe putting that much power on the low end is too unsafe on the stock internals, and those settings should always be avoided? I've actually been going back and forth between the basemap and the TSP Stage 1 lately, as I really like how hard Stage 1 pulls when I'm doing spirited driving, but in modest traffic (mostly low RPM driving), the basemap feels much more aggressive.

davemarco said:

I would agree with this. 4K and above really pulls hard - I wonder if a custom 93 octane tune could safely combine the easy low end power of a maxed basemap with the mid-high end power of the TSP Stage 1? Or maybe putting that much power on the low end is too unsafe on the stock internals, and those settings should always be avoided? I've actually been going back and forth between the basemap and the TSP Stage 1 lately, as I really like how hard Stage 1 pulls when I'm doing spirited driving, but in modest traffic (mostly low RPM driving), the basemap feels much more aggressive.

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yes, but then you chance breaking rods I am assuming. If I want more oomph at low RPM I would buy another car to be safe. Preferable one with a turbo V8

How does stock clutch hold up on TSP stage 1? Compared with basemap 23psi... My car is a 2019 si

Radsolutionz said:

How does stock clutch hold up on TSP stage 1? Compared with basemap 23psi... My car is a 2019 si

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Over 18k miles and my clutch is fine. The TSP stg 1 map is how the car should have come from the factory.