Some 2017 Civic Si details we learned

asiandeity · Apr 8, 2016

Design said:
I think AHM will get their way and have successfully lobbied for the 2.0T. All of the elements were in place to announce the Si with a 1.5T/6MT. And if that were AHM's direction, I believe it would have been announced at the NY Int'l Auto Show. Honda has made it clear that relevancy is their top priority in all upcoming models/trims.

I'm looking towards the LA Auto show for an announcement.

The announcement may come before LA. If history is any indication, the SI may bow at SEMA a couple weeks before.

Grambles · Apr 8, 2016

Design said:
I disagree. I think AHM realized during development that their competitors (namely VW and Ford) were taking larger strides than expected in their upcoming models. Overseas the 1.5T makes sense from a value perspective. Here, as a US-only trim, not so much. Hence, I think Japan will allow a 220-240 HP variant that exceeds it's HO 1.5T cousin in both efficiency and reliability.

The 201 HP 1.5T would put the Si on par with it's predecessor. The improvements in the base 1.5T's expected performance have more to do with the CVT than the motor being "underpowered."

Let's hope you're right.

Let's also hope your screen name means you work for HRA

nick · Apr 9, 2016

Design said:
I disagree. I think AHM realized during development that their competitors (namely VW and Ford) were taking larger strides than expected in their upcoming models. Overseas the 1.5T makes sense from a value perspective. Here, as a US-only trim, not so much. Hence, I think Japan will allow a 220-240 HP variant that exceeds it's HO 1.5T cousin in both efficiency and reliability.

The 201 HP 1.5T would put the Si on par with it's predecessor. The improvements in the base 1.5T's expected performance have more to do with the CVT than the motor being "underpowered."

I agree with your disagreement.
The 1.5 is already putting out almost 17 psi of boost. For the Si to remain a 1.5 and compete against VW and Ford models you would have to push the 1.5 to the absolute limits and from a reliability perspective that's just reckless. The 2.0 is the only realistic engine for the Si if they expect it to be relevant in this market while maintaining reliability.

zx2down · Apr 9, 2016

nick said:
I agree with your disagreement.
The 1.5 is already putting out almost 17 psi of boost. For the Si to remain a 1.5 and compete against VW and Ford models you would have to push the 1.5 to the absolute limits and from a reliability perspective that's just reckless. The 2.0 is the only realistic engine for the Si if they expect it to be relevant in this market while maintaining reliability.

That limit id designated more by the strength of the block/rods/pistons/crank thank the size of it. Ford is pushing 21lbs on the Fiesta ST and Nissan is pushing 19 on the Juke NISMO RS. Both those motors have shown they can take a good bit more than that. I would not be surprised if they change cam profile, intake manifold and up the boost by 3-4lbs and then call it 220hp.

Don't forget we don't know how strong the internals are, it's possible that you can even upgrade the turbo before needing to worry about them.

Mluisgr81 · Apr 9, 2016

They are not going to put the 1.5t in the si, end of story. Idk why there are so many doubters on here about the 2.0t being thrown in. The gti, wrx both have 2.0ts. The new si is going to revolutionize Honda. Sure others have been doing it for years but you will see: for the first time ever, we will have an si exceeding 220 hp with plenty of room for tuning. The naysayers go hide until it's revealed. If for some reason I am wrong, I will gladly admit it. Until then, cannot wait for the si

tacthecat · Apr 9, 2016

Mluisgr81 said:
They are not going to put the 1.5t in the si, end of story. Idk why there are so many doubters on here about the 2.0t being thrown in. The gti, wrx both have 2.0ts. The new si is going to revolutionize Honda. Sure others have been doing it for years but you will see: for the first time ever, we will have an si exceeding 220 hp with plenty of room for tuning. The naysayers go hide until it's revealed. If for some reason I am wrong, I will gladly admit it. Until then, cannot wait for the si

WRX has been 2.5L since '07

aottaviano1 · Apr 9, 2016

tacthecat said:
WRX has been 2.5L since '07

Just the STi. As of 2015 the WRX is 2.0L DIT.

zx2down · Apr 10, 2016

Mluisgr81 said:
for the first time ever, we will have an Si exceeding 220 hp with plenty of room for tuning

You mean for the first time since 2013 the Si will be relevant against its contemporaries.

The WRX and GTI/GLI have been turbo for about 10yrs, Genesis had a turbo i4 (still not sure why they cut it and went v6 only I'll have to look into that), Ford got turbo Focus in late 2013 (They almost had a 230HP Supercharged Escort in 2000 and beat everyone to the game, but cut it due to wanting to focus $$$ on the Focus), Dodge had the SRT-4 until their CEO went batshit stupid and failed with not giving the Dart an SRT-4 trim, Chevy had the SC/Turbo Cobalt SS, Mazda had the Mazdaspeed3. Hell even Buick had a decent i4 turbo with a 6spd car recently

Nissan, and Honda are the only two I can think of that have not touched the turbo game when it comes to a sport-compact in the last 20yrs. Nissan at least has a 215hp 1.6T just it's Juke only.

A turbo Si HAS to change Hondas game because really they have been out of it since about early 2000's and riding on their name and aftermarket support only. I'm eager to see one as much as you are, but I don't feel that it will do anything other than make Honda's sport-compact line relevant again.

The Si used to almost be the defacto tuning car. Now the ST is the car to pick up for that market. Soon it will be used RS/STI/EVO's flooding that market. Has Honda even said if the Type-R is AWD or just FWD? because without AWD it better be very cheap in price comparisons.

Mluisgr81 · Apr 10, 2016

I'm almost positive it will be front wheel only, which I think is ok. R cars are regarded as some of the best handling cars out there. To this day, many will tell you the Integra type r from 97-01 is the best handling front wheel drive car ever made. These cars have been known to humiliate some all wheel drive cars on the track. Look at the track times for the current type r in Europe...amazing. No need for all wheel drive unless you want it for the snow. I don't know why anyone would ever consider driving no an r in the snow, but to each their own.

tacthecat · Apr 10, 2016

aottaviano1 said:
Just the STi. As of 2015 the WRX is 2.0L DIT.

Good catch - I thought entire line was.

zx2down · Apr 10, 2016

Mluisgr81 said:
I'm almost positive it will be front wheel only, which I think is ok. R cars are regarded as some of the best handling cars out there. To this day, many will tell you the Integra type r from 97-01 is the best handling front wheel drive car ever made. These cars have been known to humiliate some all wheel drive cars on the track. Look at the track times for the current type r in Europe...amazing. No need for all wheel drive unless you want it for the snow. I don't know why anyone would ever consider driving no an r in the snow, but to each their own.

There needs to be a balance of power and grip though, if you have to slow WAY down so that you can have enough grip to get through the turn while the person with AWD doesn't then you are going to end up with a slower time. They are adding 50% more power. The Golf R and Focus RS should both get off the line faster than it, and carry more speed through corners, I am not sure what the Golf-R has for power but the Focus also makes a good chunk more. Where the Type-R has an advantage is in weight.

Mluisgr81 · Apr 10, 2016

The current type r in Europe handles amazingly. It has torque steer, but it's minimal, unlike the past few mazdaspeed 3s. I think some people will be surprised by how nice the r handles. It won't beat the golf r and wrx from a stop in a straight line, but that's not what what this car is meant for. It's a great time to be a car enthusiast once again, especially for Honda guys. All they are missing is an s2000 replacement and hopefully, a proper crx successor. A new crx with the 1.5t would do just fine, although I hear these crazy rumors of an r version.

zx2down · Apr 10, 2016

Mluisgr81 said:
The current type r in Europe handles amazingly. It has torque steer, but it's minimal, unlike the past few Mazdaspeed 3s. I think some people will be surprised by how nice the r handles. It won't beat the golf r and wrx from a stop in a straight line, but that's not what this car is meant for. It's a great time to be a car enthusiast once again, especially for Honda guys. All they are missing is an s2000 replacement and hopefully, a proper crx successor. A new crx with the 1.5t would do just fine, although I hear these crazy rumors of an r version.

Oh I don't doubt it is still the best Type-R yet, but the competition has been getting stronger and stronger as well, enthusiast car or not no one likes knowing they are the slowing car of their generations pricepoint. In it's price point it may find itself outclassed with everyone else potentially making more power and having AWD. It may end up more of a competitor to Focus ST's with tunes and catbacks than it would be for Focus RS's

I would drool over a CRZ with just the 1.5T and a 6spd as an option. An S2000 would be interesting, but they don't have any real engine to put in it unless they use the type-R engine. Currently, I feel like Ford is dominating things.

At the price point the 2.3T Ecoboost Mustang with Perf pkg beats the BRZ around tracks, nearly every tuning shop yanks out the BRZ power plant so it's generally regarded as useless. Mustang GT with perf pkg option is on the heels of much more pricey MB and BMW cars, the very aged GT500 is out doing Chevy and Dodge's best. The Fiesta ST has the small sport compact market on lock down, the Abarth its closest competitor. Focus ST is the car to beat in the current non-AWD sport compact generation, and the Focus RS is just balls to the wall nuts. The 325HP 2.7l v6 AWD Fusion Sport is coming soon also.

I would say that the biggest issue with current cars is that technology makes them feel/sound numb. I'm hoping the Type-R has the raw feel of the road driving the ITR had.

Mluisgr81 · Apr 10, 2016

zx2down said:
Oh I don't doubt it is still the best Type-R yet, but the competition has been getting stronger and stronger as well, enthusiast car or not no one likes knowing they are the slowing car of their generations pricepoint. In it's price point it may find itself outclassed with everyone else potentially making more power and having AWD. It may end up more of a competitor to Focus ST's with tunes and catbacks than it would be for Focus RS's

I would drool over a CRZ with just the 1.5T and a 6spd as an option. An S2000 would be interesting, but they don't have any real engine to put in it unless they use the type-R engine. Currently, I feel like Ford is dominating things.

At the price point the 2.3T Ecoboost Mustang with Perf pkg beats the BRZ around tracks, nearly every tuning shop yanks out the BRZ power plant so it's generally regarded as useless. Mustang GT with perf pkg option is on the heels of much more pricey MB and BMW cars, the very aged GT500 is out doing Chevy and Dodge's best. The Fiesta ST has the small sport compact market on lock down, the Abarth its closest competitor. Focus ST is the car to beat in the current non-AWD sport compact generation, and the Focus RS is just balls to the wall nuts. The 325HP 2.7l v6 AWD Fusion Sport is coming soon also.

I would say that the biggest issue with current cars is that technology makes them feel/sound numb. I'm hoping the Type-R has the raw feel of the road driving the ITR had.

Unfortunately I don't think anything these days is as raw as the high reving itr. The good news is the current r is highly praised and as raw as a modern car can be, besides a lotus Elise. Rumors are swirling that the type r we will be getting will be even more powerful. If Honda go balls to the wall nuts, we may see a car with focus rs power, without the awd.

Mluisgr81 · Apr 10, 2016

People are wishing for a crx type r...good luck. I can see a new crx with the 1.5t like you said, would be a great car with even 180 hp

Some 2017 Civic Si details we learned

asiandeity

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Grambles

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nick

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zx2down

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Mluisgr81

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tacthecat

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aottaviano1

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zx2down

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Mluisgr81

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tacthecat

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zx2down

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Mluisgr81

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Mluisgr81

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