2019 Civic Type R Spy Shots. Facelift?

CWCTR2018 said:

so you think for 32k you can get a type r now?
If that happens its a good deal then but what about the people who are looking at a sport touring? No one will take that crap 1.5L for 29k when for 3k more you can get a Type R
i will be very surprised it this happens. The SI-R is on its next anniversary release date soon. They did the same thing after two years the type r was released , they released the SI-R with a less powerful engine than the type R ,, expect to get the accord engine and tranny for 32k , maybe it will come with LSD if we are lucky

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You're right. No one who does his/her homework should pay $29k for a Sport Touring (CVT only in U.S), national average is $27.6k. Most Hondas are sold at/near invoice, Type-R is the rare exception. So $4.5k to $5k separating a base Type R (manual only) is reasonable and it is happening sooner rather than later (September - November announcement this year). You can take this to the bank.

Can’t wait to hear about different trims with the same specs on the ctr. It’s too bad the civic si spoiler does do anything which will be included on the base r, hate to see what happens at 168mph when that back end comes lose

FLRib said:

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Testing the new facelift on the Nurburgring tells me that this is functional and not just aesthetic. More cooling? More cooling would also explain why the facelift is coming so quickly.

whats funny where is the so called no spoiler version

wait i know why there isnt one

I predict these things to extend the sales until the next major redesign:
1. HP bump - even if it’s small
2. Facelift refresh front and rear
3. Type R base - stripped down to cross over to the next lower price market.
4. Additional Honda accessories

Pzb said:

I predict these things to extend the sales until the next major redesign:
1. HP bump - even if it’s small
2. Facelift refresh front and rear
3. Type R base - stripped down to cross over to the next lower price market.
4. Additional Honda accessories

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This..

I don't know why everyone expects a cheaper version to come out in the US market. It's already the cheapest in it's segment. Don't expect the STi to be cheaper when it finally gets updated, or the RS if they sell any more of them, and the EVO is gone and the VW is just bizarrely overpriced and always will be. The Si competes with the Focus ST, or the Fiesta ST, and a cheaper R would just eat into Honda's Si sales. Even overseas, while there are cheaper "top end" hot hatches, none touch the Type R in performance. I haven't seen Honda's margin published anywhere, but I doubt it's much on these cars, and it's very unlikely they'll improve it by selling a "base" trim. I know, I know this one is the "Touring" trim, and there are placeholder VINs for other trims, but that's fairly meaningless when you look at all the artifacts of development out there (like filed, unexecuted patents, etc). Also, keep in mind, the US market is unique with not much competition in this segment. Even if there are things like stripped down homologation specials, they may only go to Japan or England, where they race the cars. Probably not here.

As mentioned earlier, an Si-style spoiler is good for $1.5-2K in savings alone. Don't take my word, look up the cost on any wholesale site. Pair with other downgrades like the 19" wheels and halogens that we've seen on other test mules, and it becomes a real possibility of Honda offering a 2nd trim. Would slot well in between the Touring and Si, and compete more closely with the upcoming N. But who knows? We'll just have to wait and see.

To me, the latest red test mule suggests the rear fascia "could" remain unchanged.

willimo said:

I don't know why everyone expects a cheaper version to come out in the US market. It's already the cheapest in it's segment. Don't expect the STi to be cheaper when it finally gets updated, or the RS if they sell any more of them, and the EVO is gone and the VW is just bizarrely overpriced and always will be. The Si competes with the Focus ST, or the Fiesta ST, and a cheaper R would just eat into Honda's Si sales. Even overseas, while there are cheaper "top end" hot hatches, none touch the Type R in performance. I haven't seen Honda's margin published anywhere, but I doubt it's much on these cars, and it's very unlikely they'll improve it by selling a "base" trim. I know, I know this one is the "Touring" trim, and there are placeholder VINs for other trims, but that's fairly meaningless when you look at all the artifacts of development out there (like filed, unexecuted patents, etc). Also, keep in mind, the US market is unique with not much competition in this segment. Even if there are things like stripped down homologation specials, they may only go to Japan or England, where they race the cars. Probably not here.

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It's not about price, it's about volume. They'll make a lot more profit on higher volume, even if the price is lower.

If they sell a cheaper, slightly less wild looking R, they might double sales (not saying they would, but that could be one reason to do it). It also seems unlikely all versions of the Type R would come with nav and 12 speaker stereo. Cheaper wheels, spoiler and stereo might make the base R more profitable.

VarmintCong said:

It's not about price, it's about volume. They'll make a lot more profit on higher volume, even if the price is lower.

If they sell a cheaper, slightly less wild looking R, they might double sales (not saying they would, but that could be one reason to do it). It also seems unlikely all versions of the Type R would come with nav and 12 speaker stereo. Cheaper wheels, spoiler and stereo might make the base R more profitable.

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You realize they sell 300k civics worldwide. Why would they dump all that time and energy into making an extra 5k in sales of less fancy Type R's in America? It's not worth it.

The 5k number of units produced tells me that this isn't about the money made per unit. It's about the overall effect on the brand - this is Honda's Halo Car right now. It's to re-build street cred as an enthusiast brand.

I could see a de-tuned Type R dubbed a Type S or something along those lines, but if you're expecting a sub-30k Type R because you stripped the wing off, you're dreaming.

Driveitlikeuboughtit said:

You realize they sell 300k civics worldwide. Why would they dump all that time and energy into making an extra 5k in sales of less fancy Type R's in America? It's not worth it.

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The larger purpose of these cars is to attract non-Honda enthusiasts into the brand. If they can do that with another performance-oriented Civic, with minimal extra R&D, they'll do it. It could potentially fill a large hole in their pricing strategy among the performance line, as there are quite a few other competitors in the $26-33K range.

I know a lot of CTR purists are against the idea for fear of watering down the badge. But IMHO, the changes we've seen don't seem to negatively impact performance under triple-digit speeds. I think the bigger question is how they might tweak Swindon's production capacity to churn out additional units.

My 2 cents...

VarmintCong said:

It's not about price, it's about volume. They'll make a lot more profit on higher volume, even if the price is lower.

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You hit the nail on the head...."it's about volume."
But not what you think.
It's about a real "VOLUME" knob for the stereo system.

Design said:

The larger purpose of these cars is to attract non-Honda enthusiasts into the brand. If they can do that with another performance-oriented Civic, with minimal extra R&D, they'll do it. It could potentially fill a large hole in their pricing strategy among the performance line, as there are quite a few other competitors in the $26-33K range.

I know a lot of CTR purists are against the idea for fear of watering down the badge. But IMHO, the changes we've seen don't seem to negatively impact performance under triple-digit speeds. I think the bigger question is how they might tweak Swindon's production capacity to churn out additional units.

My 2 cents...

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26-33k range? What do you think the SI is priced at? It's MSRP is $25,000. Street pricing is more like 23k, which does leave a bit more of a hole between ADM'd Type Rs. I could see a Type S dropping in here, but not with the same wheels or engine or suspension or brakes or wing or anything nice about the Type R. A high margin car for Honda, something to make some $$$$ per unit. Basically a Sport with better engine, better brakes, LSD and better seats. Not Type R spec, but better than base. A fatter swaybar! Woohoo!

You can crowd a line up just as easily as have a hole in it. I am also not confident Swindon wants to step up Type R production - the regular hatchbacks are going like hotcakes too, so I'm not sure why they'd devote more production to the Type R, which is probably not making them as much margin as a Hatchback Sport. I'm guessing dressing it up as a limited with high margin accessories like LED headlights and being able to charge 35k lets them squeak by. Just the way everyone gushes about how great a value it is and the obvious cost of designing and sourcing low volume Type R specific parts leads me to believe that.

About the badge - Honda should be the one afraid of watering down the badge, not me. I actually think an Automatic Type R would be a fine addition. This car is pure driving enjoyment - making that very clear to everyone by making it accessible to anyone with a drivers license is fine with me. Broadens the appeal - I know I look at this car differently after having driven it.

Driveitlikeuboughtit said:

You realize they sell 300k civics worldwide. Why would they dump all that time and energy into making an extra 5k in sales of less fancy Type R's in America? It's not worth it.

The 5k number of units produced tells me that this isn't about the money made per unit. It's about the overall effect on the brand - this is Honda's Halo Car right now. It's to re-build street cred as an enthusiast brand.

I could see a de-tuned Type R dubbed a Type S or something along those lines, but if you're expecting a sub-30k Type R because you stripped the wing off, you're dreaming.

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I said a base Type R for $2 or $2500 less, that's my prediction. Lose the stereo, nav, 20" wheels, and maybe a less aggressive spoiler. Wouldn't cost them anything and they'd sell more $33k Civics.