Dealer integrity and honesty... or lack thereof

Gruber

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I did my car-buying exp using a website for comparison. Then those dealerships started contacting me and give me offers. I "reply all" so they can fight over one another for their "best deal." I then asked for financing and trade-in. Once I agreed to the offer, I came in and signed the paperwork. Finance guy also tried to sell me warranties on the spot, but I said no. He first told me that my rate would be 2.5% for 3 yrs (something like that), but I told him that Honda offers 0.9% for 3yrs and my score is good. He then said "let me check... Yes, you are qualified for that rate, but it's only 3yrs. I can give you 1.9% on 5yrs." No, thank you. Any extended warranty was bought separately thru the internet. The process took 1 hour from the time I came in to sign the paperwork.
Exactly the same process everywhere. My finance guy did exactly the same thing - I had to know about Honda 0.9% and specifically request it for him to remember. "oh yes, I've heard about that too. Let me check if it's still valid..." Who would remember such nonsense.... He offered extended warranties but was not able to come up with an acceptable price, so I kindly declined. But I take it for granted that you have to know everything and pull every single thing out of their throat. I don't ever get mad, I just smile all the time, talk a lot or just sit silent reading something or playing with the phone and make them wait forever, and we remain friends. I like the process of buying cars at dealers and I regret I can do it only once every several years at best.

I got the best price from one dealer and used it to negotiate at another dealer which I preferred and which had the color I liked better.
But I don't want to do everything on the internet by myself by exchanging a million emails. I want to talk to a salesman, he has nothing to do otherwise and just sits there sad. Then I get birthday cards.
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mathdydx

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As long as you do your research and have the ability to say "no" to car salesman from time to time, you can get a decent price on a car.
 

n2da2nd

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Exactly... that is how I roll. :)
My civic purchase was almost identical to your scenerio, did it all online even the trade in negotiation, except I did not buy an extended warranty.
On the trade, I gave them the VIN# the mileage and told them no damage, accidents or modification was done to the car.
When we agreed, I let them see the car signed and done. Not all dealers agreed to this method. The one that did, got the sale and my money$$.
Love to have The Internet + dealers compete against each other.
Exactly the same process everywhere. My finance guy did exactly the same thing - I had to know about Honda 0.9% and specifically request it for him to remember. "oh yes, I've heard about that too. Let me check if it's still valid..." Who would remember such nonsense.... He offered extended warranties but was not able to come up with an acceptable price, so I kindly declined. But I take it for granted that you have to know everything and pull every single thing out of their throat. I don't ever get mad, I just smile all the time, talk a lot or just sit silent reading something or playing with the phone and make them wait forever, and we remain friends. I like the process of buying cars at dealers and I regret I can do it only once every several years at best.

I got the best price from one dealer and used it to negotiate at another dealer which I preferred and which had the color I liked better.
But I don't want to do everything on the internet by myself by exchanging a million emails. I want to talk to a salesman, he has nothing to do otherwise and just sits there sad. Then I get birthday cards.
The best part of doing car-buying on Internet is that I can also add them to throw in some accessories together with the OTD price. Oh boys, y'all gotta see how they compete for my business, like sharks with a taste of blood.
 


Tenshi

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I spend some time on a car salesman form and it is interesting to hear their side of the sale and on the industry as a whole. There are still the sleazy bad actors and they are still in business because people keep bringing them business. The first thing that needs to happen is we, as buyers, have to stop rewarding their bad behavior. If a dealership lies/cheats/steals but still makes top sales... honestly who's fault is that?

Nothing pisses off the salesman more then having an appointment, going on a test drive, answering a few questions, sending a follow up... Only to have the buyer say "I bought it across town for $50 less!" In these cases, the salesman did everything to accommodate a customer but the buyer only cared about the bottom line. That salesman could have easily matched the price but wasn't given the option.

If you only care about the 'best price' and don't give a damn about customer service... just be honest. If you are willing to waste 10-15 salesman's time pitting them against one another for weeks on end, knowing full well you'll only buy 1 car, it may be time to reflect on that.

Modern car shopping is easy. Truecar and a bunch of other sites have great information and real stats on your local market. Pick your car, make an appointment and make an aggressive offer based on that information. If they play games LEAVE.
 
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Modern car shopping is easy. Truecar and a bunch of other sites have great information and real stats on your local market. Pick your car, make an appointment and make an aggressive offer based on that information.
When those car pricing sites first started, they were much more buyer friendly, independent and useful. But it seems to me the dealers are now directly involved with them and the pricing seems a little more in the dealers favor now. At least that's been my experience recently using Truecar and Edmunds.
 
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Tenshi

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For Truecar, I never go all the way and give it your contact info. It just needs the car and your zip to give pricing data. And sure, undercut it by $500 or whatever and try to make a deal. If they let you walk, it is too low.

There is a bit of "have your cake and eat it too" going on in the market right now. Buyers say they want a stress-free buying experience without haggling. But if the dealership accepts buyer's first offer the gears start turning and the buyer thinks they can go lower. So they'll end up haggling anyway.

There are no haggle dealerships in most markets now. I am interested to see where the industry ends up going. Especially with Carvana and other recent start ups.
 

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I spend some time on a car salesman form and it is interesting to hear their side of the sale and on the industry as a whole. There are still the sleazy bad actors and they are still in business because people keep bringing them business. The first thing that needs to happen is we, as buyers, have to stop rewarding their bad behavior. If a dealership lies/cheats/steals but still makes top sales... honestly who's fault is that?

Nothing pisses off the salesman more then having an appointment, going on a test drive, answering a few questions, sending a follow up... Only to have the buyer say "I bought it across town for $50 less!" In these cases, the salesman did everything to accommodate a customer but the buyer only cared about the bottom line. That salesman could have easily matched the price but wasn't given the option.

If you only care about the 'best price' and don't give a damn about customer service... just be honest. If you are willing to waste 10-15 salesman's time pitting them against one another for weeks on end, knowing full well you'll only buy 1 car, it may be time to reflect on that.

Modern car shopping is easy. Truecar and a bunch of other sites have great information and real stats on your local market. Pick your car, make an appointment and make an aggressive offer based on that information. If they play games LEAVE.
Good points. I actually paid a smidge more for my car because I didn't let a dealership who's sales dept. had given me a bad initial offer then jerked me around some to the point I'd just walked out because I don't play the sit and sweat game.

After another place gave me a good offer and were pleasent to work with, the original dealer offered to beat them and I told them no thanks. I was already under invoice and figured we we're talking a hundred... maybe a few hundred bucks and the satisfaction of cutting them loose after them trying all the negative tactics of not wanting to give me the keys back for my trade... acting like I didn't know what I was talking about when I was discussing my trade value and market price for the new car... wanting me to sign slips of paper to 'seal' a deal on an awful offer, we're huge turn offs.
 


Tenshi

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Good points. I actually paid a smidge more for my car because I didn't let a dealership who's sales dept. had given me a bad initial offer then jerked me around some to the point I'd just walked out because I don't play the sit and sweat game.

After another place gave me a good offer and were pleasent to work with, the original dealer offered to beat them and I told them no thanks. I was already under invoice and figured we we're talking a hundred... maybe a few hundred bucks and the satisfaction of cutting them loose after them trying all the negative tactics of not wanting to give me the keys back for my trade... acting like I didn't know what I was talking about when I was discussing my trade value and market price for the new car... wanting me to sign slips of paper to 'seal' a deal on an awful offer, we're huge turn offs.
Exactly. Vote with your dollar. I paid straight MSRP for my Si about a year ago. This was a 'deal' at the time when the dealerships were asking for MSRP +$3000. The dealership I went to shot straight the whole time and the experience was great. Yes, I could have waited a bit and paid less. But I chose to pay more and buy earlier.

Some may say paying MSRP was a rip off. For context, I called all the dealerships in my area (Phoenix) and as far north as Vegas and, at the time, every one of them was holding to MSRP+ or every dealer add-on they could stick to it (Bringing price to $32,000 before tax/title).

Finding a dealership that offered MSRP was a breath of fresh air. I bought it off the truck and put the 12th mile on it during the test drive. Point being, there is more to buying a car than the Out The Door number.
 
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ebhaynz

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Exactly. Vote with your dollar. I paid straight MSRP for my Si about a year ago. This was a 'deal' at the time when the dealerships were asking for MSRP +$3000.
I'm just curious, what was the MSRP? I think it was around 24.5K wasn't it?
 

Gruber

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...trying all the negative tactics of not wanting to give me the keys back for my trade... acting like I didn't know what I was talking about when I was discussing my trade value and market price for the new car... wanting me to sign slips of paper to 'seal' a deal on an awful offer, we're huge turn offs.
Making me sign some pieces of paper is standard, and if I got offended at this I would run out of dealers. I don't sign at first, but if they keep insisting, I sign and initial every informal slip they put in front of me. Once for fun I even made my own pieces of paper for the sales guy to sign, and they were somewhat taken off guard. If they try to remind me my signed slips I just say with a smile "sorry, I changed my mind." Generally I try to appear as a very happy and cheerful, but flaky, indecisive and eccentric guy, who will for sure buy a new car this week, but who always could switch to a different trim, model, make, get sick, get tired, get something in his eye, get called by wife, and say I'll be back tomorrow to complete the deal. Works for me.
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