Request for a KTuner Civic SI vs Type R driving experience comparision

Hi all. I'm currently a regular over on the SI section of the forums. I have a 2017 SI Coupe with a 21.5 PSI KTuner basemap flashed. Rev hang has been electronically disabled, and throttle sensitivity, spool, etc. have all been maxed. Current estimates at power would be about 215 whp and 230ish wtq.

While I love how sporty my little coupe feels with these settings, I still find myself wondering what I'm missing on the other side of the fence. I had originally been gravitating between getting an SI or a Type R, and honestly, the only thing that made me choose an SI was the fact that at the time, it was almost impossible to find a Type R for less than $45,000 - $50,000. Now that there have been a few more reports of Type R's at MSRP, I've again begun to wonder what I've been missing.

Has anyone driven both an SI with a KTuner basemap and a Type R? If so, could you possibly share your impressions on the comparative experience?

If you tune the Si, and a few upgrades, you could approach the power levels of a stock Type R. Once the aftermarket takes off, then it don' have a chance. Not sure if the Si has the same suspension capabilities, as in no torque steer, like the CTR, or the same chassis stiffening also. Drive modes are different also. The seats are absolutely amazing, as far as support and comfort. The Si, has more "helpers" for daily driving on the streets.

It's still a small displacement motor with a relatively small turbo. Flashing the 1.5 exacerbates that feeling of "running out of steam" at the top end. The CTR will continue to pull hard to its 7K redline.

Taking the two to the circuit is no contest. The CTR has a very focused suspension/brake package. And while the Si's is good, the pads tend to fade after a few hot laps. Which in turn only widens the CTR's performance gap.

1.5 is still a great little motor to mod. And as a reliable daily, you'll be hard pressed to find a better combo than the Si. But dollar for dollar, the performance value goes to the CTR @ MSRP.

davemarco said:

Hi all. I'm currently a regular over on the SI section of the forums. I have a 2017 SI Coupe with a 21.5 PSI KTuner basemap flashed. Rev hang has been electronically disabled, and throttle sensitivity, spool, etc. have all been maxed. Current estimates at power would be about 215 whp and 230ish wtq.

While I love how sporty my little coupe feels with these settings, I still find myself wondering what I'm missing on the other side of the fence. I had originally been gravitating between getting an SI or a Type R, and honestly, the only thing that made me choose an SI was the fact that at the time, it was almost impossible to find a Type R for less than $45,000 - $50,000. Now that there have been a few more reports of Type R's at MSRP, I've again begun to wonder what I've been missing.

Has anyone driven both an SI with a KTuner basemap and a Type R? If so, could you possibly share your impressions on the comparative experience?

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I had a Si 2017 coupe with flashpro at the highest tune. I found a type R Oct last year and purchased one for around 37000 and traded in the Si while selling the flashpro and injen inake. Complete difference and experience. I'm happy with type R and don't regret the upgrade one bit. Of you can find one around MSRP get it. You won't be disappointed.

potmilkz said:

there is no comparison.. the R is generally alot better in all areas in comparison to your car.

just think of it like this.. its like comparing a base civic to a civic si.. if you are able to get your hands on a R at msrp, do it. you wont have any regrets.. although tuning option is at a standstill at the moment you will quickly find out that the car has more than enough output then needed for everyday driving.

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Is this speaking from personal experience with both setups?

GAT305 said:

I had a Si 2017 coupe with flashpro at the highest tune. I found a type R Oct last year and purchased one for around 37000 and traded in the Si while selling the flashpro and injen inake. Complete difference and experience. I'm happy with type R and don't regret the upgrade one bit. Of you can find one around MSRP get it. You won't be disappointed.

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Thanks, this experience with both platforms is what I'm looking for. How bad of a hit did you take on the SI upon trade-in?

Design said:

It's still a small displacement motor with a relatively small turbo. Flashing the 1.5 exacerbates that feeling of "running out of steam" at the top end. The CTR will continue to pull hard to its 7K redline.

Taking the two to the circuit is no contest. The CTR has a very focused suspension/brake package. And while the Si's is good, the pads tend to fade after a few hot laps. Which in turn only widens the CTR's performance gap.

1.5 is still a great little motor to mod. And as a reliable daily, you'll be hard pressed to find a better combo than the Si. But dollar for dollar, the performance value goes to the CTR @ MSRP.

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Thanks for the feedback. It's a tough call, as I would be doing mostly "spirited" daily driving (never been to a track). The SI has plenty of power for that purpose, and I do like the mileage. But at the same time, I agree with you that there is definitely a lack of top-end power. There are now bolt-ons out that fix this issue (DP/FP, Intercooler, Turbo) and add significantly more ceiling to the SI and (with a custom tune) bring it close to parity with a stock Type R (in terms of power), but I would probably be spending ~$4,500 w/ labor to purchase and have them all installed (including a new clutch). At that point, I'd be approaching 30K.

On the flip side, I think that I would constantly be terrified to park a Type R anywhere, for fear of dings and/or theft (it would be my sole grocery getter). How do you guys cope with this?

potmilkz said:

have another car, thats how i cope..
but just a caution.. everything in the R is marked up by 2-3 times.. i just purchased some gc spring.sleeve set and that alone ran me 800.. if it was a reg civic that would have been half that price..
exhaust for the fk8 is either 2 or 3 times more expensive than the si..

the best tune out right now runs you 5k..

varis dry carbon fiber hood runs you nearly 4k after everything.. so if you are planning to mod the fk8, just have money ready to be shed out.

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Yeah the expenses are definitely a deterrent. I'd definitely need to get a pair of decent all seasons, and the fact that the gas tank is the same size as the regular civic (weight savings, I assume) means that at a 21 mpg average, I'd probably be gassing up more than once a week at times. I can afford it, but it would still hurt.

I've driven a stock Si and own an R, unfortunately not a modded Si yet.

They're completely different cars.

The R makes you smile in a way that an Si can't. It feels powerful and planted all the time. I can't get on a freeway without "pushing it a little", just to get that feeling of speed and control.

With a little E85 in the tank to bump up the octane of the fuel, it wakes up quite a bit and feels raw.

I don't know if I can explain it, it's just different.

typemismatch said:

I've driven a stock Si and own an R, unfortunately not a modded Si yet.

They're completely different cars.

The R makes you smile in a way that an Si can't. It feels powerful and planted all the time. I can't get on a freeway without "pushing it a little", just to get that feeling of speed and control.

With a little E85 in the tank to bump up the octane of the fuel, it wakes up quite a bit and feels raw.

I don't know if I can explain it, it's just different.

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Shit. You put E85 in the Type R with some high grade petrol? I'd like to try this if it's known to be safe.

There is really no comparison to a Type R. We have both the Si and the R now. Driving both cars you can tell where the extra money is spent on the R. The handling and response of the car is unmatched compared to the Si -- which feels sloppy and tons of body roll in the corners (even in "Sport" mode). The power delivery of a tuned R on MoTeC eclipses the power delivery of a Tune Si (also on MoTeC).

Dragnet said:

Shit. You put E85 in the Type R with some high grade petrol? I'd like to try this if it's known to be safe.

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Just enough to bump it to E10/15, which most modern cars will handle.

VitViper said:

There is really no comparison to a Type R. We have both the Si and the R now. Driving both cars you can tell where the extra money is spent on the R. The handling and response of the car is unmatched compared to the Si -- which feels sloppy and tons of body roll in the corners (even in "Sport" mode). The power delivery of a tuned R on MoTeC eclipses the power delivery of a Tune Si (also on MoTeC).

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That's awesome. Coming to the SI, I thought that in Sport mode it felt incredibly stable and flat. I couldn't even imagine what taking corners in a Type R must be like.

How would you compare your full bolt-on custom tuned SI (with the new turbo) to a stock Type R?

davemarco said:

Thanks for the feedback. It's a tough call, as I would be doing mostly "spirited" daily driving (never been to a track). The SI has plenty of power for that purpose, and I do like the mileage. But at the same time, I agree with you that there is definitely a lack of top-end power. There are now bolt-ons out that fix this issue (DP/FP, Intercooler, Turbo) and add significantly more ceiling to the SI and (with a custom tune) bring it close to parity with a stock Type R (in terms of power), but I would probably be spending ~$4,500 w/ labor to purchase and have them all installed (including a new clutch). At that point, I'd be approaching 30K.

On the flip side, I think that I would constantly be terrified to park a Type R anywhere, for fear of dings and/or theft (it would be my sole grocery getter). How do you guys cope with this?

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Having driven both, I wouldn't go so far as to call the Si's handling sloppy - especially on summer tires. It's actually quite good for a sub-25K car. Above 7/10ths is where you'll feel the difference. The A/R on the Si tends to allow the tires to deform under hard cornering. That's where you probably notice the understeer kicks in HARD. The CTR mitigates a lot of that with ultra-low profile rubber. Combined with the wider stance, turn-in is a tad more precise; and handling at the limits is far more predictable. You can probably mitigate the Si's modest behavior with better summer tires that utilize stiffer sidewalls. Something like the Pilot SS.

It should also be mentioned that you'll definitely start to feel some torque steer on the Si as you add more power. The CTR's dual axis front setup helps keep a lot of that at bay.

And finally, as someone mentioned above, cost of ownership is pretty significant between the Si and CTR - especially if you drive 20K or more per year. Insurance, fuel, tires, brakes, etc... it all adds up. Factor in the boy racer stigma and cost of wear items, it becomes a much harder decision on what to choose for daily use.

If it were me, I'd wait until summer. By then the 2019 MMR will be announced, and demand for the 2018s will start to wane. GL.

davemarco said:

That's awesome. Coming to the SI, I thought that in Sport mode it felt incredibly stable and flat. I couldn't even imagine what taking corners in a Type R must be like.

How would you compare your full bolt-on custom tuned SI (with the new turbo) to a stock Type R?

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Before it got so cold out I would find myself pushing corners waaay harder and faster than I'd ever dare with any other car I've owned. It makes my heart race every time. I always think after the fact "I can't believe I didn't just wreck back there!"