New Accord getting the engine the Si SHOULD have?

T_A_H · Nov 9, 2017

Looks like C&D rated the new 2.0t 6 speed manual d being slower than the outgoing V6.

I'm sure a tune would fix that right up, but stock for stock, that's disappointing.

CSIG1001 · Nov 9, 2017

T_A_H said:
Looks like C&D rated the new 2.0t 6 speed manual d being slower than the outgoing V6.

I'm sure a tune would fix that right up, but stock for stock, that's disappointing.

Just give it e85 and you got 400hp lol

davemarco · Nov 9, 2017

Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I feel that Honda engineered an incredible engine for the SI in the 1.5T. When it was announced that SI would use the same 1.5T as the EX-T, everyone figured that the Si was already pushing the limits of "little" 1.5T, and that the aftermarket power scene for this car would suck. Now, just a few months after launch, we have SI's pushing 250 whp with over 300 ft lbs of torque. These SI's are running faster 1/4 mile times than a stock Type R (in the very low 13's), due to the unique combo of almost zero turbo lag and an extremely light platform. After driving my 17 SI for 3 months, I simply can't go back to the "true VTEC" H22 motor of my 5th gen Prelude. Having to rev that thing to 6000 rpm just to move anywhere quickly is infuriating when I'm used to stepping down in a bolt on 17 SI with KTuner and getting thrown back in my seat.

FYI -- a simple drop-in upgrade to our turbo is already in the works that will take the whp up to between 300 and 400, while shifting the torque out to prevent the need for upgraded engine internals. I can't recall another Honda platform in which we could achieve such incredible power for so little money invested.

ChinStrap · Nov 9, 2017

davemarco said:
...FYI -- a simple drop-in upgrade to our turbo is already in the works that will take the whp up to between 300 and 400, while shifting the torque out to prevent the need for upgraded engine internals...

You have my attention.

CSIG1001 · Nov 9, 2017

ChinStrap said:
You have my attention.

The next supra give it e85

davemarco · Nov 10, 2017

ChinStrap said:
You have my attention.

Direct that attention towards some of the Vit and PRL threads. There's some amazing stuff happening in the near future.

NoelPR · Nov 10, 2017

davemarco said:
Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I feel that Honda engineered an incredible engine for the SI in the 1.5T. When it was announced that SI would use the same 1.5T as the EX-T, everyone figured that the Si was already pushing the limits of "little" 1.5T, and that the aftermarket power scene for this car would suck. Now, just a few months after launch, we have SI's pushing 250 whp with over 300 ft lbs of torque. These SI's are running faster 1/4 mile times than a stock Type R (in the very low 13's), due to the unique combo of almost zero turbo lag and an extremely light platform. After driving my 17 SI for 3 months, I simply can't go back to the "true VTEC" H22 motor of my 5th gen Prelude. Having to rev that thing to 6000 rpm just to move anywhere quickly is infuriating when I'm used to stepping down in a bolt on 17 SI with KTuner and getting thrown back in my seat.

FYI -- a simple drop-in upgrade to our turbo is already in the works that will take the whp up to between 300 and 400, while shifting the torque out to prevent the need for upgraded engine internals. I can't recall another Honda platform in which we could achieve such incredible power for so little money invested.

But imagine how those numbers could be with a 2.0T with the same adjustments?

Cheap to mod?
I'm adding up the part list of the car that made better quarter mile times than the TypeR. I might be wrong on a few.

649 KT
200 Wide Band
500 Clutch
100 Charge Pipe
800 Intercooler
769.99 DP/FP
400 CAI
$3,418**

**Doesn't include taxes/shipping and installation fee

That is not cheap IMO.

CSIG1001 · Nov 10, 2017

NoelPR said:
But imagine how those numbers could be with a 2.0T with the same adjustments?

Cheap to mod?
I'm adding up the part list of the car that made better quarter mile times than the TypeR. I might be wrong on a few.

649 KT
200 Wide Band
500 Clutch
100 Charge Pipe
800 Intercooler
769.99 DP/FP
400 CAI
$3,418**

**Doesn't include taxes/shipping and installation fee

That is not cheap IMO.

no you see its ok

just add some magic juice called E85 and boom 100 HP
this is what the kids seem to think on here ROFL

callmehandsum · Nov 10, 2017

NoelPR said:
But imagine how those numbers could be with a 2.0T with the same adjustments?

Cheap to mod?
I'm adding up the part list of the car that made better quarter mile times than the TypeR. I might be wrong on a few.

649 KT
200 Wide Band
500 Clutch
100 Charge Pipe
800 Intercooler
769.99 DP/FP
400 CAI
$3,418**

**Doesn't include taxes/shipping and installation fee

That is not cheap IMO.

Yeah, the 2.0T would have been sweet but what's done is done. The cost for those parts you added up will be probably be close to the cost of PRL's big turbo kit and that kit will make between 400 and 500hp. Run sub 11-sec quarter mile times on possibly stock internals.

PRL Motorsports said:
...As for engine internal longevity, this is a road we are still exploring. Are there limits? Most-definitely. Have we found them? No not yet. There are so many different variables to explore that it is all too soon to tell. However, we will state this:

Torque is ultimately the engine killer, not exactly horsepower. As most of you are aware, our standard 8th and 9th Gen turbo kits have been known to make 400-500 whp with ease on 93 octane pump gas and well into the 500-600 whp range on e85/race gas. Typically the 2.0L 8th Gen will safely make higher peak horsepower numbers than its 2.4L 9th Gen big brother due to the 2.4L's big torque numbers. There are quite a few stock engine K20's making 600+ whp. Of course these big numbers mean sacrificed longevity, but they can still last suprisingly long at these power levels.

How do the internals handle this power? A larger turbo/turbine wheel will obviously add a bit of "lag." However, this isn't always a bad thing. Delayed turbo spool/power will shift the power to the right of the power curve, more towards the top-end. This will dampen the extreme bottom-end torque spike of the tiny factory turbocharger. Bottom-end torque spikes can lead to engine catastrophes such as connecting rod failures. The 1.5T uses an extremely small rod with equally small, M6 rod bolts. Though we are making ~340 tq at ~280 whp, we suspect the rods are coming near their limits given their size; we will find out. With that being said, our "big" turbo equipped (which aren't even big in the performance world) 2.4L 9th Gen Civic "torque monsters" are only making about 350 tq at 500 whp. To simplify this, our turbo kit(s) will increase peak, top-end power, while dampening peak torque and shifting the curve to the right. 300-350 whp on a larger turbo should actually be safer than 280 whp on a stock turbo.

Though our goal is to make a 400-500 whp capable turbo kit, we understand the "average" customer will not plan to make these numbers, it will simply be an option to aim for in the future by the choice of different turbocharger options. Ideally it would be great if the stock motor can handle 350-400 whp. We still have to determine the engine internal limits, fuel system limits and a few other factors to determine exactly what is or isn't feasible to the average consumer.

As for any concerns with engine heat, theres should be none. Our turbo kit will utlize our FMIC kit, which will drastically decrease charge temps. This in combination to our intake solution will help keep intake air temps cool, as well as the removal of engine bay clutter with our turbo kit...

CSIG1001 · Nov 10, 2017

callmehandsum said:
Yeah, the 2.0T would have been sweet but what's done is done. The cost for those parts you added up will be probably be close to the cost of PRL's big turbo kit and that kit will make between 400 and 500hp. Run sub 11-sec quarter mile times on possibly stock internals.

You can run 12k miles after that your clutch is broke, your valves are bent ,and maybe your headgaskets are blown as well.
or i guess you can add E85 since its super reliable like the kids say on here to add 100HP. Flex fuel is the way to go because its corn fuel and natural

callmehandsum · Nov 10, 2017

CSIG1001 said:
You can run 12k miles after that your clutch is broke, your valves are bent ,and maybe your headgaskets are blown as well...

Clutch will definitely need to be upgraded. Headgaskets? Idk

davemarco · Nov 10, 2017

NoelPR said:
But imagine how those numbers could be with a 2.0T with the same adjustments?

Cheap to mod?
I'm adding up the part list of the car that made better quarter mile times than the TypeR. I might be wrong on a few.

649 KT
200 Wide Band
500 Clutch
100 Charge Pipe
800 Intercooler
769.99 DP/FP
400 CAI
$3,418**

**Doesn't include taxes/shipping and installation fee

That is not cheap IMO.

A couple of corrections to your cost analysis, as I have not seen any reference in the PRL builds to a "wide band", and the intercooler comes with a new charge pipe included:

649 KT (for V2); $449 (for V1)
500 Clutch
800 Intercooler
770 DP/FP
400 CAI (optional - the PRL Stage 1 replacement is only $90, and would only reduce the power gained by ~5 whp)
-----------------------
Total $3,119 (w/CAI); $2,809 (w/stage 1); $2609 (w/stage 1 and KT V1)

So based on this, without labor, we're looking at a max parts cost of $3,119 and a min parts cost of $2,609 (not including tax and shipping). For this you get a car that can be pushed to 250 whp and over 300 ft lbs of torque without ethanol.

However, you also did not factor in the incremental cost of the 2.0T, which would be thousands more than the 1.5T. Honda would not be gifting this differential to you -- you would be paying the cost difference up front. If we take the new Accord as an example, this differential would likely be around 2K. However, it has recently been shown that the 2.0T Accord engine is not built for heavy power in the same way as the Type R engine; as a result, you would likely need to make significant upgrades after the fact in order to extract Type R - like power. This would push the cost up a significant (and as of yet, unidentified) amount.

Finally, I would propose that we also need to look at this cost structure in comparison to the cost of doing bolt-ons for previous gen SI's. I haven't seen basic bolt-ons get a 8th or 9th gen to anywhere close to the above mentioned power. At that point, you're looking at doing a turbo build, which would give you much more power than what's listed above, but would also significantly raise the cost as well. I've seen estimates on this between 5K and 10K. And at that point, to maintain an apples to apples comparison, you would have to compare this to whatever the cost of the upcoming PRL 10th gen bolt on turbo kit will be, which we do not yet have a cost structure for.

Personally, I think that relative to previous bolt-on costs for previous platforms, the performance that we get for the relatively small investment on the 10th gen platform is outstanding.

CSIG1001 · Nov 10, 2017

is the accord 6 speed getting the LSD ? no one can confirm this on reviews

pretty sad

17siturb0 · Nov 10, 2017

CSIG1001 said:
is the accord 6 speed getting the LSD ? no one can confirm this on reviews

pretty sad

I’m going to say it does not.

CSIG1001 · Nov 10, 2017

17siturb0 said:
I’m going to say it does not.

it uses the same transmission as the type r though

still you think they removed it? I cannot confirm this anywhere yet. Pretty sad so called professional you tube reviewers dont mention this

New Accord getting the engine the Si SHOULD have?

T_A_H

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CSIG1001

davemarco

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ChinStrap

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CSIG1001

davemarco

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NoelPR

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CSIG1001

callmehandsum

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callmehandsum

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davemarco

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17siturb0

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