Civic Si - Let's do some math on that 192 lb-ft rating

Design

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Threads
28
Messages
3,329
Reaction score
2,903
Location
Southern California
Vehicle(s)
09 MS3, 17 ABM Si Sedan
Country flag
I think Honda is paying close attention to VW. I also think the Si's obscurity is more than just coincidence or bad marketing.

I think Honda's original game plan was probably 201-205. I think they went back and raised the ceiling without tweaking peak torque all that much.

215-225 is my hunch. From a marketing/PR perspective, it's difficult to sell torque as "the most powerful Si we've ever built."
Sponsored

 

kritz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2017
Threads
15
Messages
814
Reaction score
921
Location
Ohio
Vehicle(s)
17Civic SI sedan
Another factor may be the 1.5T engine plant is running flat out to keep up with demand for the new CRV and current Civics using that engine. CRV sales have basically doubled over last year(62K from 32K) I'm not sure Honda was expecting that big of an increase.
 
Last edited:

b0j4ngl35

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
58
Reaction score
81
Location
Grand Forks, ND
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic EX Hatchback
I'm just wondering...If people test drove the new Si with 205 HP, and then drove the exact same car, but with 220 HP, would that *really* be the difference maker in whether or not you'd purchase the car? If I was just looking for something to impress my butt dyno, I'd be looking at other cars entirely.

Just my two cents!
 

Design

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2015
Threads
28
Messages
3,329
Reaction score
2,903
Location
Southern California
Vehicle(s)
09 MS3, 17 ABM Si Sedan
Country flag
I think the difference has more to do with other Civics in the lineup. Like it or not, HP is the first and last thing to run through a consumer's mind when considering a new car purchase. And that's been reinforced by the plethora of responses in our Si threads. If buyers can pick up a Hatch Sport or EX-T with a lot of the Si DNA, then a modestly powered Si becomes more difficult for Honda to position in their lineup.

This car really does need a good 20-25% boost in power to prevent an identity crisis. But even if it doesn't, I'm sure it will receive plenty of praise with its other performance tweaks.
 

b0j4ngl35

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2016
Threads
2
Messages
58
Reaction score
81
Location
Grand Forks, ND
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic EX Hatchback
Like it or not, HP is the first and last thing to run through a consumer's mind when considering a new car purchase.
Can't argue that! I wish that wasn't the case because I think a lot more people would appreciate these cars for what they are then, rather than saying "why would I want that when I can buy a 300 HP V6 Mustang for the same price!" :p
 


CIVICSPORT

Doctor
Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Threads
28
Messages
346
Reaction score
268
Location
Canada
Vehicle(s)
'16 Touring
I'm just wondering...If people test drove the new Si with 205 HP, and then drove the exact same car, but with 220 HP, would that *really* be the difference maker in whether or not you'd purchase the car? If I was just looking for something to impress my butt dyno, I'd be looking at other cars entirely.

Just my two cents!
Numbers sell. Which is why we have the pissing contest with 707hp cars these days.

Typically I'm not a bench racer, and I need a feel for the car, but again at 192 torque and 206hp, it definitely makes me look at the ST with 270 torque and the GTI with 258 Torque and makes me think Honda is doling out the shaft in return for peoples money.

Again I would need to see 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. But I'm betting those will be a bit lack luster
 

pukemon

Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Threads
18
Messages
219
Reaction score
53
Location
TX
Vehicle(s)
2014 DBP Civic SI
i am still upset the new si didn't get a 2.0L engine. even then i think honda should've have gone for 192tq. i am hoping it is underrated like the other civics. that 192 is making me seriously think about the type R but even though honda is claiming it will be aggressively priced, that is just PR to justify the $35000 or more they're going to charge, and even if it comes out to $34999 after taxes and fees and bs dealership taxes we are looking at $40k... for a civic. for that money i should keep my '14 SI and slap a small supercharger, get a hondata and tune and come out ahead. the handling difference between the '13 and '14 was huge in my opinion but i would assume the chassis and suspension of even the EX is better than mine. what to do? what to do?

considering the market, i think honda should make the type R a mass production car, well like the SI production, rather than limited production. they could probably price it around $32000 and get more takers. and is the type R going to get a solid mid 30's mpg highway? maybe close to 40mpg? 35+mpg hwy and production numbers similar to SI would probably steal the market. need to try and keep the number close to $600 a month for financing. not sure if a car like this will get .9% financing. it will probably be 1.9% and that makes financing closer to $700 a month rather 6.
 
Last edited:

jk147

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2015
Threads
0
Messages
182
Reaction score
75
Location
NJ
Vehicle(s)
Civic
i am still upset the new si didn't get a 2.0L engine. even then i think honda should've have gone for 192tq. i am hoping it is underrated like the other civics. that 192 is making me seriously think about the type R but even though honda is claiming it will be aggressively priced, that is just PR to justify the $35000 or more they're going to charge, and even if it comes out to $34999 after taxes and fees and bs dealership taxes we are looking at $40k... for a civic. for that money i should keep my '14 SI and slap a small supercharger, get a hondata and tune and come out ahead. the handling difference between the '13 and '14 was huge in my opinion but i would assume the chassis and suspension of even the EX is better than mine. what to do? what to do?

considering the market, i think honda should make the type R a mass production car, well like the SI production, rather than limited production. they could probably price it around $32000 and get more takers. and is the type R going to get a solid mid 30's mpg highway? maybe close to 40mpg? 35+mpg hwy and production numbers similar to SI would probably steal the market. need to try and keep the number close to $600 a month for financing. not sure if a car like this will get .9% financing. it will probably be 1.9% and that makes financing closer to $700 a month rather 6.

As car enthusiasts we always like to think most people are into cars and is willing to buy performance oriented cars. But people don't. Most people if you ask them honestly, will not spend 40k on a Civic, but will spend 40k on a BMW. Because it is a BMW and they don't track or race but enjoy spirited drives here and there, a 328 is more than enough for that.

Civic in it's core is economy first and performance second. I am always surprised that Si is still a thing because technically Honda isn't offering much when you compare it to the likes of ST, Mazdaspeed 3, ecoboost Stang..etc. Honda has been quite boring for the last decade.
 

A2typeR

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2016
Threads
10
Messages
534
Reaction score
515
Location
Ann Arbor
Vehicle(s)
2019 Honda Civic Si sedan (TSP stage 1) 2016 Mazda Miata Club (Brembo BBS pack)
Country flag
@jk147

Spot on,

If Honda doesn't get low 30ks for the CTR it's gonna be another disaster as this Si will most definetly be.

Outside a couple thousand dedicated loyalist who buy the CTR. The sub 40k performance market is so competitive, which is a good thing. So many options so many choices.

Only way the CTR goes beyond expectations is if mid 30s and it outclasses it's all wheel drive competitors on a track.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 

erbee

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Threads
17
Messages
1,514
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Orange CA
Vehicle(s)
1999 Nissan Altima, 2004 BMW M3
Country flag
@jk147

Spot on,

If Honda doesn't get low 30ks for the CTR it's gonna be another disaster as this Si will most definetly be.

Outside a couple thousand dedicated loyalist who buy the CTR. The sub 40k performance market is so competitive, which is a good thing. So many options so many choices.

Only way the CTR goes beyond expectations is if mid 30s and it outclasses it's all wheel drive competitors on a track.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Wait till you add the sub 40 used car ...... If CTR came out overpriced I'll be upgrading my E46 to a E92 competition pkg.
 


OP
OP
fg2kid

fg2kid

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2016
Threads
4
Messages
55
Reaction score
58
Location
New York
Vehicle(s)
2019 Civic Si, 1991 Civic DX
Vehicle Showcase
2
Country flag
205 hp is a bit of a let down. I still have faith in Honda though. Hopefully it will be priced appropriately.
 

jpmelfi

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2016
Threads
23
Messages
565
Reaction score
627
Location
New Jersey
Vehicle(s)
CTR #706, 07 S2k
Country flag
Wait till you add the sub 40 used car ...... If CTR came out overpriced I'll be upgrading my E46 to a E92 competition pkg.
Enjoy the headache of e92 m3 ownership. Car might be 40k now, but you are still fixing a 60k+ car when something goes wrong, which it most certainly will with that car
 

erbee

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2016
Threads
17
Messages
1,514
Reaction score
1,074
Location
Orange CA
Vehicle(s)
1999 Nissan Altima, 2004 BMW M3
Country flag
Enjoy the headache of e92 m3 ownership. Car might be 40k now, but you are still fixing a 60k+ car when something goes wrong, which it most certainly will with that car

Thank you for your concern. I'm talking about 2013 M3 with 20k miles. The sorted out last model year with CPO warranty. 7 year/ 100,000 bumper to bumper . $50 deductible even for an new engine. Honda warranty on the other hand, they want to charge my friend's 15 Si dead battery 's labor, his car only has 5k miles.


I don't blame you for not having luxury car knowledge . Perhaps you should learn more about European cars before talking to a guy from used BMW dealership.
 
Last edited:

AP2SLOW

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2017
Threads
1
Messages
88
Reaction score
145
Location
Boise, ID
Vehicle(s)
2017 Civic Si (Daily). 2006 NFR S2000 (Weekend Racer). 1992 Integra (SOLD). 2005 RSX Type-S (SOLD). 2002 Civic (SOLD)
Thank you for your concert. I'm talking about 2013 M3 the last model year with CPO warranty. 7 year/ 100,000. $50 deductible even for an new engine. Honda warranty on the other hand, they want to charge my friend's 15 Si dead battery for labor, his car only has 5k miles.
Why are you here?
 


 


Top