How in the heck is this car totaled??? I am getting scammed

Dan198

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I know I'm jumping in late here and want to understand what Gap insurance does as I've never heard of it or maybe it is not available here in Canada. Is the purpose to cover you on any deficit between the insurance payout and the loan owing in the even the car is a write off?

In Ontario, we can add a rider on our insurance called depreciation waiver, and it is offerred for the first two years on the life of a car. So if my negotiated purchase price for a car is $20k and I have a trade in worth $10k (taxes and options included), if the car is totalled during the first two years, the insurance pays me $20k. In this situation, I do not lose the equity of my trade in. The cost of this option is less than $40 a yr so I always opt in on this whenever I buy a new car. Is this option not available in the US?
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inv4zn

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I know I'm jumping in late here and want to understand what Gap insurance does as I've never heard of it or maybe it is not available here in Canada. Is the purpose to cover you on any deficit between the insurance payout and the loan owing in the even the car is a write off?

In Ontario, we can add a rider on our insurance called depreciation waiver, and it is offerred for the first two years on the life of a car. So if my negotiated purchase price for a car is $20k and I have a trade in worth $10k (taxes and options included), if the car is totalled during the first two years, the insurance pays me $20k. In this situation, I do not lose the equity of my trade in. The cost of this option is less than $40 a yr so I always opt in on this whenever I buy a new car. Is this option not available in the US?
Different countries, different terminology, but you've got it right.

GAP covers you in case you owe more money than the car's value. It's similar to the insurance's depreciation waiver, except GAP is done at the dealership most of the time.
 

Eddie

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Dealers have a way of making up the money they (pretend to offer you on a trade in) that's what happened to you. They add on all the BS and get your trade in for a lot less money then you think you got. You can also look at it another way, had you not had a trade in you most certainly would've been in the RED. That's where GAP would've come in handy. You were almost better off selling privately if negotiating skills aren't there.

I'll give you an example of how the finance guy can screw you up really good. I had a 15k dollar check from ins for a total on my MDX. I went and bought a 2014 Touring Pilot for 0.9% interest. The finance guy says to my wife and I, why don't you take the ck and use it elsewhere? It's only .9% on the loan. I laughed my ass off and said oh really, So I blow the 15k on some BS that I could probably do without and have a nice high payment for 60 months of 40k dollars, be in the position to need GAP and if something happens income wise, I get to lose my car....wow, what a guy!
 

bembol

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Did you not get GAP insurance?

Also, while the possibility of them milking you(r insurance) is definitely there, body damage and mechanical damage are very different things.

You can see the radiator is fucked, and in very close proximity to that is the ECU, which is likely also fucked. Your light lens may be fine, but there are other parts to it that bolt to the frame, which are likely fucked.

I don't get it - I understand you stand to lose on depreciation if you don't have GAP insurance, but would you rather drive around a car that's been fucked, and already lost tons of resale value? Or take the exact same hit and get a new vehicle?

Also, if you didn't get GAP, why the fuck didn't you get GAP on a brand new car?

Relax. LOL

Honda offered it to me but not paying $1,500 for it when my own insurance offers it.
 

bembol

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It happened to me I got hit, side swiped and thinking (not in this case) I'm not-at-fault I let the body shop handle the work. Why do I care it's not costing me a dime to fix it.

Years had passed and was time to trade it in. I said I was hit nothing big. The sales came back with a $13,000 history claim. Which screwed me over on the trade-in.

Lesson here is get a SECOND opinion.
 


kirkhilles

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Relax. LOL

Honda offered it to me but not paying $1,500 for it when my own insurance offers it.
Yep, I'm not surprised by this. Given the fact that not all insurance companies offer GAP and many people don't know that they might be able to get it from their Insurance Company and that there aren't many/any reputable 3rd party GAP policies out there, I'm sure the dealers often try to screw you over. In general, your odds of having your car be totaled in the first 1.5 years or so that GAP has ANY value at all is pretty small. Fender Benders and most accidents don't result in a car being totalled which means that GAP IS NOT USED in that scenario. People also don't think about the fact that every month that goes by, the value of your GAP policy decreases as your debt does.

My Dad a number of years ago got rammed quite hard by a drunk driver and although the damage was extensive, it still wasn't enough (surprisingly) for the car to be totaled, so GAP would've been inconsequential.
 

bembol

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Fear is a powerful tool.

Two of my boy's interestingly both bought a CivicX, 2016 Coupe & 2017 Sedan Touring got the Gap insurance from Honda. They also both Extended Warranties.
 

inv4zn

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@bembol

GAP was $300 through the dealership with me - if your quote was $1500 it's for some other reason, or they were just being shady as shit.

As for your $13K hit, does your insurance not give you a letter/statement?

I was chewing out OP on a number of things here, so none of what I said was supposed to be taken generally. GAP covers people for things exactly like this incident. Even if it was $1500 it would still be worth it if you start out $8K upside down.
 

jk147

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I feel bad for OP but this is a lesson on understanding what you are buying and not let dealerships take advantage of you.
 

kirkhilles

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Yeah, I'm still completely confused about the numbers. I'd love a final breakdown of it all once everything is completely nailed down. Still, are you saying that the sale price was $35,000 for a Touring Civic? The same one that has an MSRP for $26,500 and has everything you could possible want? You added $8,500 in additional options/taxes/fees on top of that???

If that's the case, then, yeah, the moment you drove off the lot your car became worth a lot less. Most Touring owners paid about $25,000 (+ taxes/fees/etc) and the Depreciation Schedule from Honda says that after 3 years and 45,000 the Touring Model should be worth (this is the value you were allowed to purchase it at if leasing): $15,370. So, $20,000 seems pretty low with a 25% depreciation as the average listing in AutoTrader for 2016+ Tourings is about $23,000. Only 11 listed in the country below $22,000.
 


bembol

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@bembol

GAP was $300 through the dealership with me - if your quote was $1500 it's for some other reason, or they were just being shady as shit.

As for your $13K hit, does your insurance not give you a letter/statement?

I was chewing out OP on a number of things here, so none of what I said was supposed to be taken generally. GAP covers people for things exactly like this incident. Even if it was $1500 it would still be worth it if you start out $8K upside down.
I never buy any of those it was my boys that did and $1,500 is BS like I said they hooked them easily. LOL

As for my $13k my insurance at that time deal with the shop and apparently they had no problems approving it. Seems like the Shop & Insurance Adjuster were on it together?

I cancelled after learning about it.
 

inv4zn

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I never buy any of those it was my boys that did and $1,500 is BS like I said they hooked them easily. LOL

As for my $13k my insurance at that time deal with the shop and apparently they had no problems approving it. Seems like the Shop & Insurance Adjuster were on it together?

I cancelled after learning about it.
...you didn't answer any of my questions. GAP is determined depending on how upside down you are on the car, among other things, and is sometimes negotiable. If you (or your sons) were offered $1500 for GAP insurance then there's a reason for it. OP said his GAP was $800, and mine at time of sale was $300. So it's better to actually sit down and crunch numbers before just deciding GAP is not worth it. Unless of course, as you said, you can get the same coverage by your own provider.

Insurance wise, I guess it works a bit differently up here.
 
OP
OP

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Yeah, I'm still completely confused about the numbers. I'd love a final breakdown of it all once everything is completely nailed down. Still, are you saying that the sale price was $35,000 for a Touring Civic? The same one that has an MSRP for $26,500 and has everything you could possible want? You added $8,500 in additional options/taxes/fees on top of that???

If that's the case, then, yeah, the moment you drove off the lot your car became worth a lot less. Most Touring owners paid about $25,000 (+ taxes/fees/etc) and the Depreciation Schedule from Honda says that after 3 years and 45,000 the Touring Model should be worth (this is the value you were allowed to purchase it at if leasing): $15,370. So, $20,000 seems pretty low with a 25% depreciation as the average listing in AutoTrader for 2016+ Tourings is about $23,000. Only 11 listed in the country below $22,000.
The numbers on my invoice show...

25644 Price of vehicle
1500 Leather
389 Moon Visor
1993 Extended Service Agreement
299 Maintance
795 GAP
895 Car Care
359 Paintless Dent Repair

31869 Total Delivered Price

13750 Trade in Allowance

18119 Cash Price or Trade Difference

47.19 Bus Tax
131.57 County Tax
1265.89 State Tax
30.50 Tax Title Tag
698 Dealer Fee
9925 Payoff on Trade in

30216.22 Total Balance

34765 Total amount owed over course of 60 months.

Edit...

Before I get ripped on my stupidity for buying this, understand that over the course of my entire life Ive never had the opportunity to buy a new car, so its not like I had any experience in the matter. I lost my father and both grandmothers unexpectedly this year and my mothers house caught on fire leaving her handicap for the rest of her life. Having a new car for once in my life was a dream of mine, and realized tomorrow is never guaranteed, I got one.

Its very easy to sit on the outside and talk about how stupid I am, and maybe I was. However, it is not remotely believable that with my car getting hit dead center with a trailor hitch causing the hood to crumple, that 3 separate electrical connecters located at 3 separate locations on the vehicle all became completely severed resulting in an additional 10000 dollars in labor and parts. It was also not believable that my car has sat down there for 42 days because they only have 1 mechanic ( their words, not mine ) for 207 cars on the lot and approx. 30 more coming in every day ( once again, their words..not mine )

As it stands now, I walk away from this with no car and no way to put another down payment on another car. They wont even consider the extra leather, roof guard, lights, tint or anything else in the settlement either. The leather seats were installed 4 days before the wreck, I don't even think the passenger or rear seats were ever sat in. The insurance didn't even honor the rental agreement per my policy stating I got 30 days of rental at 30 dollars per day and cut me off at 19 for reasons that have not been disclosed.

The shadiness of this chop shop operation, coupled with the insurance denying me my rights under my insurance policy, coupled with a low settlement amount has left me pissed off.
 
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inv4zn

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Ok...first of all, my sincerest condolences for the hardship in your life. You certainly didn't need a car accident at this point, but you'll pull through.

Now, I thought you got a Touring - those come with Leather, so if you really did get a Touring, and you paid $1500 for leather, that's borderline fraud.
Also, $1993 for extended warranty, then wtf is $299 maintenance??
I assume "Car Care" is some sort of paint protection plan, maybe interior as well. You paid $359 for paintless dent repair on a car that doesn't have any dents??
$698 dealer fee??? wtf???

Also that's ~5.6% APR - which I may be wrong because I don't live in the states, but seems kinda high, even at 60 months.

The desire to buy a new car is something we can all sympathize with, we've all been there.
But to buy a car you cannot afford, and then signing something without reading the 6 freaking thousand dollars on top of vehicle price is asinine, at best.

Absolutely mind-boggling. Do you have any idea how loud the cheering would have been at the dealership as soon as you left? Christ.

As for your insurance thing, you are ignoring everyone's opinion here that totaling the car is not as unbelievable as you seem to have convinced yourself.

I'm truly sorry, but you are making one bad decision after another. There were so, so many things you could have done to either mitigate or outright prevent this from happening. You could have kept your Mustang. You could have not bought a top of the line Civic. You could have read the actual bill of sale before signing. You could have made calls to insurance all throughout this ordeal. You could have pulled your car out of the shady shop and taken it somewhere else. So, so many things.

If you need another car, go to a bank and negotiate a rate for a price you can afford w/out down payment on a car. Go used if you have to, or get a shitty car like a Cruze or something, if you have to. Seeing as how you've managed to get 2 loans for 2 cars, I'm going to assume your credit is decent enough. It's not impossible for you to get another car. Also switch insurance providers. Read the fucking bill of sale.

Lastly, I donno if this applies to you where you live, but up here in Canada, we have a choice to buy back a totalled vehicle. For example, if my car was written off and insurance paid me $25K for my car, I can buy it back from them for $15K. You can then get the car fixed on your own dime, get it inspected and certified as rebuilt, and drive it.
 

sdfdsfsd

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Off topic, but I just wanted to know how the Collision Mitigation Braking System handled in the accident. Did it assist you in stopping the vehicle at all?
Seconding this question.
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