Xtreme-DI EVO fuel upgrade discussion

[Tagger888]

Party time ?

Man I can't wait for mine to come in!! Ready to see some numbers! @kefi any chance to play around with tuning on one of these pumps yet?

 

[blackfc1]

Party time ?

Can’t wait to see your results!!

 

[kefi]

@kefi any chance to play around with tuning on one of these pumps yet?

Not this pump in particular, although I will be in the next week or two when it starts arriving to my customers. I’ll be conferring with XDI to make sure I get the most out of it.

 

[jpmelfi]

@kefi So just curious of a few things, assuming an upgraded turbo like the P600 on 93:

1. What power can be expected with stock fuel system?
2. What power can be expected from just replacing the high pressure pump with the Xtreme-DI EVO?
3. At what power level do the stock injectors need to be upgraded?
4. At what power level does the stock in tank pump need to be upgraded?

I am just trying to plan this out as best I can. I don't want to find myself at the dyno wishing I would have upgraded a part of the fuel system that I didn't. I want to get it right the first time. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[kefi]

@kefi So just curious of a few things, assuming an upgraded turbo like the P600 on 93:

1. What power can be expected with stock fuel system?
2. What power can be expected from just replacing the high pressure pump with the Xtreme-DI EVO?
3. At what power level do the stock injectors need to be upgraded?
4. At what power level does the stock in tank pump need to be upgraded?

I am just trying to plan this out as best I can. I don't want to find myself at the dyno wishing I would have upgraded a part of the fuel system that I didn't. I want to get it right the first time. Thanks in advance for the help.

1. Without a fuel system, not a ton. More peak horsepower than midrange torque. 425hp, maybe closer to 450.
2. The inverse of the above. Without a turbo, you’ll see great midrange gains but not much at the top end (400-425) UNLESS you’re running ethanol, in which case expect 425-450whp.
3. 500whp or so seems to be the consensus but we still need more data
4. If you’re running E85 it’s a good idea, otherwise not necessary. It’s been shown to handle up to 600whp.

The magic combo is a turbo and fuel system, since you will get both midrange torque gains and peak horsepower gains. You’ll likely land at 475-500whp on ethanol without any additional items, 450-475 on 93.

 

[Nitroturtle]

Can't wait to see what results people get with this pump. I'm currently FBO + flex fuel and honestly didn't feel like I gained much from FBO versus just the flex fuel as I quickly maxed out the available fuel. Definitely plan on picking up a pump here soon to hopefully take advantage of the mods I already have. If I can get to 450whp by adding this pump I'll definitely be very pleased.

 

[jpmelfi]

1. Without a fuel system, not a ton. More peak horsepower than midrange torque. 425hp, maybe closer to 450.
2. The inverse of the above. Without a turbo, you’ll see great midrange gains but not much at the top end (400-425) UNLESS you’re running ethanol, in which case expect 425-450whp.
3. 500whp or so seems to be the consensus but we still need more data
4. If you’re running E85 it’s a good idea, otherwise not necessary. It’s been shown to handle up to 600whp.

The magic combo is a turbo and fuel system, since you will get both midrange torque gains and peak horsepower gains. You’ll likely land at 475-500whp on ethanol without any additional items, 450-475 on 93.

I really appreciate you getting back to me. I actually don’t mind keeping midrange torque down. I am mainly looking for top end, as I am used to the typical Honda power band. So I would be happy at 425-450 whp up top and keeping mid range torque around 375 wtq.
But I guess at those power levels I would be at the peak of what the stock fuel system can do up top. At that point would it be better to get the Xtreme-DI just so the stock pump isn’t running at 100% duty cycle? How bad is it to run a pump at its limit?

 

[kefi]

I really appreciate you getting back to me. I actually don’t mind keeping midrange torque down. I am mainly looking for top end, as I am used to the typical Honda power band. So I would be happy at 425-450 whp up top and keeping mid range torque around 375 wtq.
But I guess at those power levels I would be at the peak of what the stock fuel system can do up top. At that point would it be better to get the Xtreme-DI just so the stock pump isn’t running at 100% duty cycle? How bad is it to run a pump at its limit?

Yes, once you get a turbo your OEM fuel system will be maxed out across the board (assuming the tuner utilized all of the available pumping capacity).

To my understanding, running a pump at 100% doesn’t put any more strain on the pump itself. It simply changes how long the solenoid stays open on the compression stroke, either way the pump cylinder is fully filling with gas every stroke. However, the resulting pressure loss can be catastrophic if it isn’t properly tuned to avoid 100%.

As long as your tuner keeps it away from 100% duty (other than quick taps) you’re okay.

 

[ebatr24]

I really appreciate you getting back to me. I actually don’t mind keeping midrange torque down. I am mainly looking for top end, as I am used to the typical Honda power band. So I would be happy at 425-450 whp up top and keeping mid range torque around 375 wtq.
But I guess at those power levels I would be at the peak of what the stock fuel system can do up top. At that point would it be better to get the Xtreme-DI just so the stock pump isn’t running at 100% duty cycle? How bad is it to run a pump at its limit?

How much time do you really spend up top? I've found on the street the mid range is much more fun and used frequently. I think having a tune with reduced mid range torque would be great for a track, but while driving on the street it does leave considerable power on the table.

 

[AlphaDigital]

How much time do you really spend up top? I've found on the street the mid range is much more fun and used frequently. I think having a tune with reduced mid range torque would be great for a track, but while driving on the street it does leave considerable power on the table.

The way I see it is that this car has plenty of midrange power, even with a bigger turbo youre likely making 350+ lbft of torque in the midrange. Having a bigger turbo will just push that powerband further to the right, increasing linear power, and power under the curve.

I think this makes the car much more useable in a lot of situations. "decreasing" the midrange torque should decrease the amount of wheelspin you get, so theoretically, it should benefit you accelerating out of a corner. It should also help the longevity of the motor pushing peak torque back a bit. And then of course, having the power carry all the way to redline instead of falling flat on its face after 6k is always nice.

Being able to shift at redline and falling back into a longer and more usable powerband I think should be a great benefit with a bigger system.

Just my thoughts.

 

[jpmelfi]

How much time do you really spend up top? I've found on the street the mid range is much more fun and used frequently. I think having a tune with reduced mid range torque would be great for a track, but while driving on the street it does leave considerable power on the table.

Yeah I totally agree. I think first, my biggest concern with keeping the midrange down is longevity. I know these engines aren't weak by any means, but I am definitely trying to avoid breaking anything. Second, I am used to and enjoy the power band of my S2k. The car obviously lacks a ton of midrange, but there is nothing like taking an engine to redline. I have gotten used to working for the power.

 

[Jrn450]

As far a I know there is no actual basemap for this pump which means you will not get much out of it on a basemap. I got a hold of a datalog on e50 basemap using this pump and it reaches 90% duty cycle in some areas of the pull

 

[kefi]

As far a I know there is no actual basemap for this pump which means you will not get much out of it on a basemap. I got a hold of a datalog on e50 basemap using this pump and it reaches 90% duty cycle in some areas of the pull

Correct. You’ll need a custom tune. But, if you buy the pump through me the tune is 25% off ?

 

[Jrn450]

Correct. You’ll need a custom tune. But, if you buy the pump through me the tune is 25% off ?

I ordered from full race on day one after support became available still waiting on it.
now I did email you that datalog let me know what you think of it. I also messaged you on instagram.

 

[ebatr24]

Yeah I totally agree. I think first, my biggest concern with keeping the midrange down is longevity. I know these engines aren't weak by any means, but I am definitely trying to avoid breaking anything. Second, I am used to and enjoy the power band of my S2k. The car obviously lacks a ton of midrange, but there is nothing like taking an engine to redline. I have gotten used to working for the power.

That is definitely something I have thought of, when it comes to using the XDI pump with pump gas. I had to reduce mid range boost a ton due to my stock HPFP but I wonder how much is safe for the internals.

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